Some Schmo wrote:I highly recommend The God Delusion for some excellent explanations of the evolutionary justification for religion.
The fact that religion is culturally ubiquitous does not speak to its validity or truthfulness. It does, however, speak to the nature of humankind's mental architecture.
I've read a few books purporting to explain it but haven't been convinced. When I finish my current reading list (too long already) I might pick it up. Thanks.
The key would probably be to get my entertainment and my self-education reading from 80/20 to 50/50 where it used to be.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
It woud destroy the plan of salvation for God to intervene in the choices we make.
That being said, the influence a person has, no matter how far reaching, will be used in the time of judgement. Men like Pol Pot and others will be held responsible for their influence.
Some men will be held up as a righteous influence and exalted, their posterity rising up at the time of judgement and declaring them honored for their influence upon their family and friends. Just as Abraham, Isacc, and Jacob are.
The reverse is also true.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
beastie wrote:How would it destroy the plan of salvation for God to warn many of his sincere believers about the 9/11 plot so the believers could act to prevent it?
Believers claim that God does stuff like this all the time on a small, personal, completely anecdotal scale. So why not on a larger scale?
Why not?
I present the following reasons:
1. Time for those people to die.
2. If God had told the Prophet that there were going to be planes crashing into buildings on 9/11 and he told the world would you expect the Pentagon to react? The aftermath would have seen people saying the LDS Church was in cahoots with Al-Qaeda. (See Helaman 8-9 for reaction to Prophecies of this kind)
3. All the individual responses to the tragedy can't be measured. Is it possible that someone may have turned to God in the wake of the disastar? Even many people? More people were at least shaken up and had to look at things with new eyes after having their complacency shaken. I don't think anyone not under the influence of Prophecy can definitively say that any large act had a cumulative positive or negative result. I can only judge correctly it's impact on me....and even that is fallible.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
1 - it's time for those people to die - all I can say about this is that it's disgusting.
2 - the LDS church in cahoots - well, God certainly has allowed other things to happen that puts the LDS church in a bad light, AND I didn't say anything about God talking to LDS exclusively. You slipped up there.
3 - disaster turns people to God - another sentiment I find disgusting. People are subjected to the most inhumane treatment so other people can be charitable and get saved. Surely life is hard enough without these sort of completely unnecessary events that people can be prompted to turn to God.
by the way, none of your explanations had to do with "destroying the plan of salvation", did they?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
1 - it's time for those people to die - all I can say about this is that it's disgusting.
2 - the LDS church in cahoots - well, God certainly has allowed other things to happen that puts the LDS church in a bad light, AND I didn't say anything about God talking to LDS exclusively. You slipped up there.
3 - disaster turns people to God - another sentiment I find disgusting. People are subjected to the most inhumane treatment so other people can be charitable and get saved. Surely life is hard enough without these sort of completely unnecessary events that people can be prompted to turn to God.
by the way, none of your explanations had to do with "destroying the plan of salvation", did they?
1. God takes death less seriously than we do. That death exists at all is proof God has no strong bias against it. If God created us he can snuff out our life as easily as he created it and has every right to. Are you afraid of death?
2. Not sure what you're saying....do you think the Pope or Billy Graham could have averted it? Or an outspoken group of Christians or Buddhists or whatever? I doubt it.
3. You find it disgusting? What more humane method would you suggest God try? More tracting? More great moral teachers? He uses these methods because we don't seem to listen to anything else. Life wasn't meant to be easy nor was that God's primary concern when he sent us here. We are his creation. He has a purpose for us and can be amazingly dedicated and what we would call ruthless in getting us to where we should be. Death, pain, loss, and all the rest he can cure. He can't kill our self-will without our agreement.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
I'm not afraid of death, Nehor. But to suggest that the massacre of 9/11 was due to it "being time for those people to die" is offensive due to all the horrific pain and suffering it has caused among the living. You think that the massacre turned people to God? Do you realize how often senseless acts of cruelty turn people AWAY from God? Think of the children whose parents were taken from them. Do you understand how growing up without a parent can damage a child's life is so many ways? Is God really that lame? All these spirit children who supposedly chose the right in the pre-existence are so damaged that it takes a massacre to make them believe in God? God really needs mass murder to soften peoples' hearts?
And when I say God could speak to believers, I'm not just talking about popes and prophets - you're the product of LDS hierarchal thinking to conclude as much. I'm also talking about the believer peons, who are also sincere and pray to God to be able to intervene for good in the world.
Admit it, Nehor. The real problem with my suggestion is that you realize that God just doesn't speak that clearly to human beings, does he?
And do you realize that all you are doing is explaining why the world with God looks exactly like the world without God?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.