Lucretia wrote:I do believe his message is utterly and completely different than what was recorded in the Bible, but there are other sources available.
I'm curious, Lucretia. Could you expand a little more on what you feel his message was? Do you have a more scholarly view of Christ's message? By that, I mean, do you think that, as some scholars have asserted, Christ was making more of a political statement with his mission than a religious one?
I so wish I were a scholar!!!!!! Actually, I ran into A Course in Miracles 15 years ago and it became my path with no possibility of ever turning back. I hesitate to bring it up much on this board, it being a Mormon discussion board, but if you're interested I'd love to talk about it with you.
Lucretia wrote:I do believe his message is utterly and completely different than what was recorded in the Bible, but there are other sources available.
I'm curious, Lucretia. Could you expand a little more on what you feel his message was? Do you have a more scholarly view of Christ's message? By that, I mean, do you think that, as some scholars have asserted, Christ was making more of a political statement with his mission than a religious one?
I so wish I were a scholar!!!!!! Actually, I ran into A Course in Miracles 15 years ago and it became my path with no possibility of ever turning back. I hesitate to bring it up much on this board, it being a Mormon discussion board, but if you're interested I'd love to talk about it with you.
It sounds really interesting. PM me if you would like.
I also think it would be an interesting discussion for the Celestial Board or the Off Topic board.
If you wanted to go more scholarly, and do it on the Celestial Board, you could ask for LDS perspective to keep a Mormon topical spin on it. LOL
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:I do believe his message is utterly and completely different than what was recorded in the Bible, but there are other sources available.
As far as his being the first Goth and wanted people to drink his actual blood ... is that so much different than the blood sacrifices commanded in the Bible? Think about it. Blood-drinking Goths seem out of character of God FOR YOU, but Abraham's sacrifice doesn't? Blood-drinking Goths gross YOU out but a sword bearing angel threatening Emma doesn't? A god who would command the one thing could easily command the other. I don't believe in a god of degrees.
No, it's not and as a former Goth I rejoice in this. They don't gross me out. Although I never did the blood-drinking thing I had friends who did quite often. I am difficult to gross out at this point. I don't get grossed out by sword-bearing angels, I get attentive.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Blixa wrote:Don't take this the wrong way Nehor, but since you've been back you sound a bit, oh, wackadoodle...
I hope its only the effect of lurve...
I go through phases, my friends tell me I have 3 distinct personalities and I change between them.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:I do believe his message is utterly and completely different than what was recorded in the Bible, but there are other sources available.
As far as his being the first Goth and wanted people to drink his actual blood ... is that so much different than the blood sacrifices commanded in the Bible? Think about it. Blood-drinking Goths seem out of character of God FOR YOU, but Abraham's sacrifice doesn't? Blood-drinking Goths gross YOU out but a sword bearing angel threatening Emma doesn't? A god who would command the one thing could easily command the other. I don't believe in a god of degrees.
No, it's not and as a former Goth I rejoice in this. They don't gross me out. Although I never did the blood-drinking thing I had friends who did quite often. I am difficult to gross out at this point. I don't get grossed out by sword-bearing angels, I get attentive.
Those sword-bearing angels grabbing your attention are tools of the ego to distract you from God. Choose love instead of fear, my dear.
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:Those sword-bearing angels grabbing your attention are tools of the ego to distract you from God. Choose love instead of fear, my dear.
I've never met a sword-bearing angel, I admit.
I fear God. I love God. I have both.
I may go off on an analogy here pulled from the Bible. Imagine a man who is the masculine ideal, the perfect man. He marries a woman because he loves her. She turns out to be a promiscuous, gossiping, violent, degrading, overspending, profane slut. The man is free to leave her at any time but doesn't because he loves her. She is trying to live up to what she should be but constantly screws up. He forgives her adultery, covers her bills, and keeps wiping the slate clean and helping her to change. Would she fear him? Some? He tells her she's wrong when she fails and requires that she own up to it and try again. Her self-will hates him but the noblest part of her wants to be his ideal bride. All is in the balance. If it turns out she will never be faithful there is a final divorce. Divorce in the analogy is hell.
If the genders offend you feel free to make it a virtuous woman and an abominable man.
I think this analogy understates the difference between where we are and where God is. Staring into the face of ultimate good is not fun. It would destroy most of us. I don't understand the cognitive dissonance some people have. They want to believe God is more and greater and more beyond our comprehension than what shallow Christianity believes but they want his concept of good to be happy with us of all people. What we consider ultimate and total self-sacrifice MIGHT qualify as common decency in heaven.
I fear God but I love him for caring enough and saving me by sending his Son. There was no other way. I can't meet his standards on my own.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Then we have nothing. Gordo the Clown PRofit said that the truthfulness of the crutch all boiled down to the 1st Vision.
Either the 1st Vision either happened the way Joseph's Myth said it did or it didn't. Either the crutch is true or it is the biggest fraud ever foisted upon mankind. There is no middle ground.
I went with fraud. Maybe not the biggest one ever foisted upon mankind, that'd have to be either Islam, Naziism or Communism, or Amway, but definitely a fraud and not at all what Joseph's Myth claimed.
When my bishop used the same line on me, "Well, it all boils down to the 1st vision, either it happened the way Joseph's Myth said it happened or it didn't!"
I said, "Which version?"
He said, "Well there's only one official version."
I said, "Yeah, well it bears very little resemblance to the original version, which was written 10 years prior to the "official version" and the original version was the only one written in Joseph's Myth's own hand."
He said, "Well, they're all basically the same in the important details."
I shook my head in the east west direction.
He said, "They're not?" (Apparently this was the first time he'd ever heard anything about the different versions of the 1st Vision)
I said, "No, they contradict each other. The original one only mentioned one "lord". 10 years later, under extreme duress, needing to prop up his authority with some divine authority, he made up the "official version" where both God and Jesus appeared to him and gave him authority."
What really convinced me that Gordo was an effing clown and no PRofit at all was the brainless talk he gave in conference in October 2001, right after 9-11. Where he expressed his concerns about the sad state of society. I thought he was going to say something, anything about 9-11, considering that it was after all the worst terrorist act ever carried out against innocent victims, it happened on US soil and it was motivated by religious fanatics.
Silly me, I thought a PRofit was supposed to PRophesize, or at least speculate on gawd's intent, since I believed the PRopoganda that HE was actually the mouthpiece of allmighty gawd on earth.
So what did the Great white Alpha Male in the sky reveal to Gordo the clown PRofit at such a critical juncture in history? What was his greatest concearn for humanity after he allowed 3,000 of his innoncent children to perish at the hands of religious fanatics?
As we stood on the threshold of a massive holy war that would cost thousands of more lives and hundreds of billions of dollars, according to Gordo the clown, gawd's greatest concern for mankind was that Mormon youngsters are wearing too many earings and tatoos.
WTF? Are you serious?
I can't even properly express how disillusioned I was after hearing that.
It became clear to me that the source I was looking to for enlightenment was actually a black hole, sucking everything down into the bottomless void, completely devoid of light.
Fortunately that epiphany compressed my beliefs down into the genesis of a completely new cosmology for me and my family.
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:Those sword-bearing angels grabbing your attention are tools of the ego to distract you from God. Choose love instead of fear, my dear.
I've never met a sword-bearing angel, I admit.
I fear God. I love God. I have both.
I may go off on an analogy here pulled from the Bible. Imagine a man who is the masculine ideal, the perfect man. He marries a woman because he loves her. She turns out to be a promiscuous, gossiping, violent, degrading, overspending, profane slut. The man is free to leave her at any time but doesn't because he loves her. She is trying to live up to what she should be but constantly screws up. He forgives her adultery, covers her bills, and keeps wiping the slate clean and helping her to change. Would she fear him? Some? He tells her she's wrong when she fails and requires that she own up to it and try again. Her self-will hates him but the noblest part of her wants to be his ideal bride. All is in the balance. If it turns out she will never be faithful there is a final divorce. Divorce in the analogy is hell.
If the genders offend you feel free to make it a virtuous woman and an abominable man.
I think this analogy understates the difference between where we are and where God is. Staring into the face of ultimate good is not fun. It would destroy most of us. I don't understand the cognitive dissonance some people have. They want to believe God is more and greater and more beyond our comprehension than what shallow Christianity believes but they want his concept of good to be happy with us of all people. What we consider ultimate and total self-sacrifice MIGHT qualify as common decency in heaven.
I fear God but I love him for caring enough and saving me by sending his Son. There was no other way. I can't meet his standards on my own.
A God of love (and I mean a completely non-dualistic God of love) doesn't use or inspire fear. He doesn't have standards and there will be no judgment. I know that you are more attached to the idea of ruling your own universe than most Mormons, so a non-dualistic God will obviously not appeal to you at this stage of your life, but there is always another way, a better way.