What does it feel like to be wrong about your religion?

[_guy sajer]

Assume for a moment that we're right and that what we say could keep you out of hell for a time. Is it arrogance to share that or worry about it? If I believe it (as I do) I would have to be a monster not to share it.

Even if I could assume that you're right, there's absolutely no way that you could know that you're right, the best you could do is assume as well. In which case, nothing has changed.

[_Sethbag]

My whole approach with this is aimed at getting Mormons to realize that their situation isn't really all that unique; that there are other churches where people go through life more or less just like they do, with similar attitudes, similar experiences, etc., who the Mormons know are actually wrong about their religion. I'm trying to help people see that it's not as impossible, or inconceivable, for the Mormon church not to be right as a lot of Mormons imagine it to be, and to use the situation of the JWs to demonstrate that. I believe the JWs have a church experience, and social experience, that is remarkably similar to the LDS experience. Obviously there are some specifics about each church that are difference, but from the bird's eye view, they're pretty darn close as lifestyles and as religions and belief experiences.

If the JWs can be so convinced, and yet still be wrong, I want a Mormon to seriously consider hmm, what's really that different about our situations that still makes it impossible for Mormonism not to be true? Their conception of this as an impossibility is not strong evidence that it is in fact impossible (for Mormonism to be wrong). There are many other people out there for whom it is an impossibility for their religion not to be true, and yet their religions aren't true.

What, exactly, makes a Mormon so different that they aren't susceptible to the same delusion with respect to their beliefs that almost every other religious person in the world is apparently susceptible to?

I really am trying to develop an approach that breaks down the notion that LDS are somehow special, and not subject to the same kinds of experiences of false faith that almost everyone else in the world who is religious must be subject to. If an LDS person can realize that they just might be susceptible to the same kinds of weaknesses of belief as everyone else, I think they will have a good start toward being able to seriously consider that the LDS church might in fact be wrong. Being able to consider that as a very real possibility is absolutely necessary before anyone can approach the true LDS history without a knee-jerk impulse to find ways of excusing it all away somehow.

Thanks for all your comments so far.

[_The Nehor]

Assume for a moment that we're right and that what we say could keep you out of hell for a time. Is it arrogance to share that or worry about it? If I believe it (as I do) I would have to be a monster not to share it.

Even if I could assume that you're right, there's absolutely no way that you could know that you're right, the best you could do is assume as well. In which case, nothing has changed.

I disagree that I can't know I'm right.

[_The Nehor]

Assume for a moment that we're right and that what we say could keep you out of hell for a time. Is it arrogance to share that or worry about it? If I believe it (as I do) I would have to be a monster not to share it.

The world is full of religions that are urgently trying to convert the world for its own good.
Look around! Does that seem like a good thing? Is it working out for the benefit of the world?

Depends on what you mean by the world. Historically no, the wars of philosophy and religion have caused more destruction than any other. Individuals, no idea. I would say it is a good thing for me. Since I see this as a stopover point we're not supposed to get attached to I have no problem with it causing problems. In fact for the LDS this is a relatively easy generation. The Prophet is not currently seen as a traitor to the nation or a horrible blasphemer by the people at large. I don't think it will last.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Assume for a moment that we're right and that what we say could keep you out of hell for a time. Is it arrogance to share that or worry about it? If I believe it (as I do) I would have to be a monster not to share it.

It's arrogant to assume people are going to hell because they do not believe as you do, Nehor. It's equally arrogant to assume anything you might say could keep them from going there, even if hell were a real place.

And if you're right, and Mormon God is the best there is, then I'll go to hell rather than worship him.

KA

[_KimberlyAnn]

Assume for a moment that we're right and that what we say could keep you out of hell for a time. Is it arrogance to share that or worry about it? If I believe it (as I do) I would have to be a monster not to share it.

Even if I could assume that you're right, there's absolutely no way that you could know that you're right, the best you could do is assume as well. In which case, nothing has changed.

I disagree that I can't know I'm right.

No, Nehor, you cannot KNOW you're right. The fact that you think so shows how pompous you are.

You can believe you're right, which is the best anyone can do in matters of faith.

KA

[_asbestosman]

I really am trying to develop an approach that breaks down the notion that LDS are somehow special, and not subject to the same kinds of experiences of false faith that almost everyone else in the world who is religious must be subject to. If an LDS person can realize that they just might be susceptible to the same kinds of weaknesses of belief as everyone else, I think they will have a good start toward being able to seriously consider that the LDS church might in fact be wrong. Being able to consider that as a very real possibility is absolutely necessary before anyone can approach the true LDS history without a knee-jerk impulse to find ways of excusing it all away somehow.

Amazingly enough I had those very questions on my mission and it was actually very difficult for me. I wanted to know how I knew so I could help others understand what was right. As things progressed I wanted more to know if indeed I was right. In the end I had concluded that it is indeed possible that the JWs are correct--that I don't really know that they are wrong.

And yet I still believe and feel justified in my belief. I'm sure it's not out of comfort as I'm not really the type to like social events, especially church social events.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Assume for a moment that we're right and that what we say could keep you out of hell for a time. Is it arrogance to share that or worry about it? If I believe it (as I do) I would have to be a monster not to share it.

Nehor, when I am confronted with neighbors that feel they must speak to me about my salvation I do not consider them arrogant. I consider that in their belief they know a truth that they feel compelled to share with me because they care for me. I listen respectfully and decline requests to attend some Churches. Others I have visited and actually enjoyed the experience of different worship styles.

I'm not offended in the least bit by people telling me of their way of salvation or what not. I do get ookied out sometimes by it. :) But I'm not offended and can't say I've ever considered them arrogant.

[_guy sajer]

What, exactly, makes a Mormon so different that they aren't susceptible to the same delusion with respect to their beliefs that almost every other religious person in the world is apparently susceptible to?

I really am trying to develop an approach that breaks down the notion that LDS are somehow special, and not subject to the same kinds of experiences of false faith that almost everyone else in the world who is religious must be subject to. If an LDS person can realize that they just might be susceptible to the same kinds of weaknesses of belief as everyone else, I think they will have a good start toward being able to seriously consider that the LDS church might in fact be wrong. Being able to consider that as a very real possibility is absolutely necessary before anyone can approach the true LDS history without a knee-jerk impulse to find ways of excusing it all away somehow.

Thanks for all your comments so far.

The problem is that Mormons, and other true believers, really do think they're special. In fact, belief in personal "specialhood" is a pre-requisite for this type of belief.

When it's obvious that God does not answer all prayers, that he fails to intervene in millions and millions of cases, despite fervent pleadings from the faithful, why would anyone expect God to answer them? It's because at some level, they believe they are special. For some unknown reason, God will ignore countless others, but he will intervene on their behalf. There's no rational way to explain it, it ultimately devolves down to a perception that the person is, for whatever reason, an exception, possessing a certain special status such that God, though he ignores millions of others, will answer his/her pleadings.

The assumption of specialhood, for example, is implied every time a believer who is sparred a tragedy that befalls others thanks God for her safety.

Nehor is an example. Billions of people have traversed this planet without God so much as taking a notice of them, while our good friend Nehor claims an intimate, sure knowledge; not only that, God regularly talks to him and reveals to him God's will. Why Nehor? Why not the billions of other people inhabiting this planet?

Why you Nehor, what makes you so special?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Assume for a moment that we're right and that what we say could keep you out of hell for a time. Is it arrogance to share that or worry about it? If I believe it (as I do) I would have to be a monster not to share it.

Absolutely. That is why Evangelicals, and Baptists, and born agains are so adamantly anti-mormon. They are trying to save you from hell. To them, you are stepping onto that train track and they need to get you off, no matter how rude or arrogant they may seem. If that means peeing on Book of Mormons on temple square, or wearing temple garments to get your attention, so be it. They are only trying to save you.