Modesty & LDS Girls/Women & Sexually Frustrated Men

[_Seven]

The teaching/belief/doctrine that women are here for the pleasure of man is what has caused the problem. There are millions of folks who belief this is truth. in my opinion, it is a very unhealthy way to exist as a society and as a human species.

Hi Truth Dancer, :)
I agree!

Do you believe women who dress immodestly , sexually pose in magazines, support porn (that includes people who watch it too) are also part of the problem with our culture?

[_barrelomonkeys]

Oh I am SOO sorry to both Sailgirl7 and Seven for mixing them up! My apologies. It was actually just the thought that struck me and not the poster... I think very highly of both of you and just the sentiment in the statement was what piqued my interest. Please accept my apologies!

I made a comment that a breast is still a sexual part of a woman's body even if it's exposed to feed a baby.
I don't cover up my breasts because I will feel guilty for exciting a man or ashamed. I just think it's polite if it makes a man uncomfortable and I understand why it would. Nothing about my choice to do that is motivated by a belief that I am harming or corrupting him. Just good manners. It's natural to do many things, but I still shut the door when I go to the bathroom in public.

I understand your point. I just took that thought and incorporated it into all the other things I witness and see on this board and from my own experience with my step-son that is LDS.

I don't worry about that but my point was that I try to be considerate if it makes men uncomfortable to have my breasts exposed.
I guess in some ways women are all taught that if you dress like a tramp, you are going to provoke negative attention to yourself. I don't believe this is unique to LDS culture though. At what point do we draw the line on what is appropriate sexy clothing and trampy? Today if you go to the beach I would be more modest in my bra and underwear than what most girls are wearing.

I think that dressing like a tramp is subjective and it is definitely not something unique to LDS culture. The no masturbation thing I think feeds into the men acting especially *odd* and turned on by the littlest things though... or I was at least speculating this is the case.

Well I dress in a bikini on the beach as well as at the pool because I'm very tiny down below and larger above and have incredibly difficulty finding a one piece that fits me. I don't really think of it as sexy, just a swimsuit. I'm not offended though if someone else thinks it is sexy, or if someone else doesn't. I'm just not that concerned by what they think of me and what I wear.

I don't either. I would take it as a compliment! :) When a man flirts with me or smiles at me, it can make my day.
But, if I wear clothes intentionally exposing my breasts or clinging to my a**, then I would expect to get some negative attention.

I attend a university and am very careful about what I wear to campus so I do not get looks that I don't really want. I try to hide my breasts as best I can because I've gotten past the stage in my life where I find it ego boosting when men ogle me. However I can wear jeans and a t-shirt with flipflops and men still ogle me. I just don't think that I should concern myself with whatever they find attractive in me, or anyone else for that matter, and try to not be that person because they are turned on.

I believe modesty is a good thing but not because I am ashamed of my body or how men react to me. I dress sexy for myself and my DH but I don't want to share that with all the other men out there. When I see women dressing in a sexually suggestive way, I think it reveals more about them than the man who may get turned on. Women like that are very insecure and enjoy/need the sexual attention.

I think that women that dress sexually suggestive to gain attention want attention... they probably need that to feel powerful or that they are desirable.. but this I could see as a possible consequence in telling girls that they somehow are responsible for how men react to them. You tell a girl that they are something men will be turned on by then why would anyone be surprised when they believe it?

[_Hoops]

Your penchant for buttressing your argument with hyperbole is not helpful. Who in the world said construction workers whistling at a fifteen year old is acceptable. Please, emotionalism is impressive, but not helpful.

No, I don't know what it is like to be admired in this way. Nor do you know what it's like to walk around with sexual impulses you can not control and have a thought you have every 6 seconds be called sinful and demeaning to 52% of the population.

Nor have I ever suggested that a woman's sexual attractiveness should be the limit to their value - nor a man's.

Then your complaint is with those who do. Those of us, the vast majority, who do admire a woman's shape and admire a woman's mystery are not your enemy. Though, in your zeal to defend some ridiculous feminist world view, you have made us so.

Sorry, women are here for the pleasure of men. Men are here for the pleasure of women. Get over yourself. You're not nearly as persecuted as you claim.

To deconstruct all of your gross generalizations and exaggerations would take quite some time. You may enjoy waging this war on men, but I won't participate.

[Guest]

Never mind... blathered again. :D


I just think men are attracted to women for various reasons.. some that we may be quite surprised at!

[_Seven]

Oh I am SOO sorry to both Sailgirl7 and Seven for mixing them up! My apologies. It was actually just the thought that struck me and not the poster... I think very highly of both of you and just the sentiment in the statement was what piqued my interest. Please accept my apologies!

Hi barrelofmonkeys, :)
No apology necessary but it was sweet of you. I highly respect you here and think it's a great topic! I wasn't offended at all but just wanted to clarify my post on the other thread in case it was misunderstood.

[_sailgirl7]

Oh I am SOO sorry to both Sailgirl7 and Seven for mixing them up! My apologies. It was actually just the thought that struck me and not the poster... I think very highly of both of you and just the sentiment in the statement was what piqued my interest. Please accept my apologies!

No problem at all- I also think women should be respectful of other men and women, but mostly out of self-respect and not necessarily for what someone's reaction may or may not be. I do believe in modesty but not because I don't want to turn someone on. I believe in modesty in public because it feels better for me.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Hoops...

Sorry if I hit a nerve! I didn't mean to offend you.

Your penchant for buttressing your argument with hyperbole is not helpful. Who in the world said construction workers whistling at a fifteen year old is acceptable. Please, emotionalism is impressive, but not helpful.

I'm not saying YOU thought this was OK... I'm trying to make the point that young women growing up in this world do not need to hear the message that they are their body, and their worth is based on how attractive they are to men.

No, I don't know what it is like to be admired in this way. Nor do you know what it's like to walk around with sexual impulses you can not control and have a thought you have every 6 seconds be called sinful and demeaning to 52% of the population.

It is not I who call men sinners...

Nor have I ever suggested that a woman's sexual attractiveness should be the limit to their value - nor a man's.

Again, I'm not suggesting YOU do... I'm saying that our world, our society has given this message to girls and women. Do you know any parents of young girls?

Then your complaint is with those who do.

Yep... I'm not suggesting you are in this catagory Hoops.... I think I was clear when I acknowledged that YOU do NOT see it this way.

Those of us, the vast majority, who do admire a woman's shape and admire a woman's mystery are not your enemy. Though, in your zeal to defend some ridiculous feminist world view, you have made us so.

I do not have an enemy. And I have no need to defend a ridiculous feminist world view.

I am hopeful that our world will move to a place where women are valued for something other than her body, and treated with more respect.

While you and others may indeed see women as something more than a form, this is not the message girls and women receive in our society.

Sorry, women are here for the pleasure of men. Men are here for the pleasure of women.

I do not think God created women for the pleasure of men.... In other words, I'm suggesting the idea that a woman's value is based on how valuable she is to a man is not in the best interest of life.

Get over yourself. You're not nearly as persecuted as you claim.

I do not feel persectued at all. I'm not sure what gave you this impression. Nor do I think I am anything to get over. ;-)

I do know society is filled with girls who are struggling with their self worth, who have issues of body loathing, who have all sorts of eating disorders, who hate themselves because they do not feel sexually attractive.

To deconstruct all of your gross generalizations and exaggerations would take quite some time. You may enjoy waging this war on men, but I won't participate.

I am not waging a war on anyone. Virtually all the men I know are fabulous, wonderful, amazing men! Not sure why you think I want to wage a war of anyone.

My difficulty comes with a society that is not healthy for girls and women.

And if you think I am exaggerating you have not spoken to many young women these days, or you are unaware of the message young women are inundated with each day.

Sorry again for any hard feelings... it was not my intention to fight or offend.

~dancer~

[Shadrak]

delete

[_asbestosman]

Perhaps it would be beneficial to mention a distinction between an attractive woman and being sexually stimulated. I've always liked women who were really good at math. Some effort must also be spent grooming (bathing, wearing clean clothes, but not necessarily full makeup or whatever). Disposition is also important.

Sexual stimulation, on the other hand, can probably occur under many circumstances. That said, I don't find it to be nearly as strong as attractiveness. Perhaps that is in part due to my LDS upbringing where I find it necessary not to dwell on sex (unless it is exclusively with my wife). Indeed it can still be difficult to control the mind. However, that strength is usually short lived--on the order of minutes. Attractiveness, on the other hand, will still be strong weeks, months, or even years later.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Asbestosman,

Perhaps it would be beneficial to mention a distinction between an attractive woman and being sexually stimulated. I've always liked women who were really good at math. Some effort must also be spent grooming (bathing, wearing clean clothes, but not necessarily full makeup or whatever). Disposition is also important.

Sexual stimulation, on the other hand, can probably occur under many circumstances. That said, I don't find it to be nearly as strong as attractiveness. Perhaps that is in part due to my LDS upbringing where I find it necessary not to dwell on sex (unless it is exclusively with my wife). Indeed it can still be difficult to control the mind. However, that strength is usually short lived--on the order of minutes. Attractiveness, on the other hand, will still be strong weeks, months, or even years later.

Great point!

~dancer~