Modesty & LDS Girls/Women & Sexually Frustrated Men

[_sailgirl7]

My sister is stunningly beautiful and when she lived in Italy the men went crazy wherever she walked. They are much more vocal there than any construction worker I have seen. (edit to add: no offense to construction workers intended)

When I was younger and was at a stoplight in my car, a group of young men were gawking at me, calling out "you're hot!" across the intersection. They crashed their car into the one in front of them from not looking at the road. Luckily nobody was hurt. I don't know how they could even tell if I was attractive from that distance. You never know what will make guys nutty.

I think of the Seinfeld where Jerry said men are so afraid of us that it's the only way they know how to get our attention. (or something like that) Men just know they want us!

I actually appreciate some of the gawking. Like when I am 9 months pregnant and feel like a whale. I have had some young men flirt with me or smile because they can't see the rest of my body- Then when they notice my belly and train of little kids behind me I love to see their expression of shock. Some will tell me how beautiful I look big belly and all and then open the door for me. It's very sweet.

Seven,
I'm sure you are stunningly beautiful too! Guys actually crashed their car to get a better look at you!

[_Hoops]

And if you think I am exaggerating you have not spoken to many young women these days, or you are unaware of the message young women are inundated with each day.



~dancer~

Which is why I added "demeaning".


I would confidently wager that I have spoken with, counselled, and been in authority over/with many, many more young women then most if not all here. It is from this perspective that i comment.

[_Seven]

I do know society is filled with girls who are struggling with their self worth, who have issues of body loathing, who have all sorts of eating disorders, who hate themselves because they do not feel sexually attractive.

My difficulty comes with a society that is not healthy for girls and women.

Media and Hollywood put so much emphasis on body image that I don't want my girls viewing or reading any of those magazines. We have limited TV to one special night a week for them.

There are countless examples of celebrities who are struggling with self image. Angelina Jolie who is a beautiful woman has looked skeletal lately. I saw her in the movie "A Mighty Heart" and she looked awful. Christine Taylor (Ben Stiller's wife) who normally looks healthy and beautiful looked anorexic in the movie "License to Wed." These are both women who are gorgeous and had perfect bodies before. The camera adds ten pounds so I can't imagine how terrible they must look in person. It is sad that women feel so much pressure to conform to an image that they believe society expects of them.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Hoops...

I would confidently wager that I have spoken with, counselled, and been in authority over/with many, many more young women then most if not all here. It is from this perspective that I comment.

I'm not sure if I am understanding...

Are you suggesting young girls are NOT given the message that they must be sexy and alluring to men? That their role models are NOT scantily clad women who are out of control sexually? That the magazines, TV programs, and music videos are not giving the message that they must be sexally stimuating? That there is NOT an emphasis on sexuality in our culture?

Hmmm...

Actually Hoops.. I think we agree more than we disagree. :-)


~dancer~

[_barrelomonkeys]

Hi Hoops...

I would confidently wager that I have spoken with, counselled, and been in authority over/with many, many more young women then most if not all here. It is from this perspective that I comment.

I'm not sure if I am understanding...

Are you suggesting young girls are NOT given the message that they must be sexy and alluring to men? That their role models are NOT scantily clad women who are out of control sexually? That the magazines, TV programs, and music videos are not giving the message that they must be sexally stimuating? That there is NOT an emphasis on sexuality in our culture?

Hmmm...

Actually Hoops.. I think we agree more than we disagree. :-)


~dancer~

Truth dancer. I agree with everything you wrote. I think society and our popular culture does present a very skewed version of sexuality to our women and girls... So I think of the LDS Church telling women to dress modestly and on the face of it this seems to be a good message. It is when it is wrapped in with the idea that they are somehow to blame for the men thinking impure thoughts that I have qualms with the message.

Am I wrong in that regard?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Barrel of Monkeys...

Truth dancer. I agree with everything you wrote. I think society and our popular culture does present a very skewed version of sexuality to our women and girls... So I think of the LDS Church telling women to dress modestly and on the face of it this seems to be a good message. It is when it is wrapped in with the idea that they are somehow to blame for the men thinking impure thoughts that I have qualms with the message.

Am I wrong in that regard?

I think you are correct! :-)

I think a healthy message to young women would be... respect yourself, value yourself, you are worth something because you are a human being. You have gifts to give, ideas to share, thoughts to write, talents to explore, etc. etc.

Dressing respectfully, modestly, appropriately reflects the fact that you do not need to disrobe to be valued!

NOT... cover your body so men will not have bad thoughts!

:-)

~dancer~

[_Hoops]

Hi Hoops...

I would confidently wager that I have spoken with, counselled, and been in authority over/with many, many more young women then most if not all here. It is from this perspective that I comment.

I'm not sure if I am understanding...

Are you suggesting young girls are NOT given the message that they must be sexy and alluring to men? That their role models are NOT scantily clad women who are out of control sexually? That the magazines, TV programs, and music videos are not giving the message that they must be sexally stimuating? That there is NOT an emphasis on sexuality in our culture?

Hmmm...

Actually Hoops.. I think we agree more than we disagree. :-)




~dancer~

Truth dancer. I agree with everything you wrote. I think society and our popular culture does present a very skewed version of sexuality to our women and girls... So I think of the LDS Church telling women to dress modestly and on the face of it this seems to be a good message. It is when it is wrapped in with the idea that they are somehow to blame for the men thinking impure thoughts that I have qualms with the message.

Am I wrong in that regard?

May I comment on both?

If your comment is solely on the popular culture's objectification of women, I am fully on board, ticket paid for, and excited for the trip. However, to tie men's natural reaction to this manifestation is unacceptable to me. We have had these thoughts of women long before there were "Vogue" or "insert insipid women's magazine title here" (I'm teasing)

I thought you were blaming men for this phenomenon. And the crux of your argument was the FACT that men admire women's form. We do. WE always will. I don't think that's bad. I love women and all they have to offer. I believe women are awfully quick to judge men as somehow evil or dirty or objectifying women when we notice a shapely woman. We are not. We are normal. We are built that way. And I choose to not fight this particular natural inclination.

I saw a girl just yesterday. Could have been anywhere from 15 to 25, I don't know. I don't remember what she looks like now, but at the time I thought she was very beautiful. So where does that place me on the scale of evil?

Barrel, women are NOT to blame for men having these thoughts. Neither are men! It is natural. It is the way we are.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Hoops..

If your comment is solely on the popular culture's objectification of women,

Yes this was the intent of my comment.

I am fully on board, ticket paid for, and excited for the trip. However, to tie men's natural reaction to this manifestation is unacceptable to me. We have had these thoughts of women long before there were "Vogue" or "insert insipid women's magazine title here" (I'm teasing)

I have never said anything about the natural inclination of men to enjoy a woman's body.

I thought you were blaming men for this phenomenon.

Nope... woman have bought into the idea. (I do think the origin has to do with the beginning of patriarchy thousands of years ago but this is another topic)! :-)

And the crux of your argument was the FACT that men admire women's form.

Nope... I'm talking about a society that sends a message to girls and women that their value lies in how sexually attractive they are to men.

I saw a girl just yesterday. Could have been anywhere from 15 to 25, I don't know. I don't remember what she looks like now, but at the time I thought she was very beautiful. So where does that place me on the scale of evil?

I'm not sure what gave you the impression that there is something wrong here... it is religion that has issues with evil not me.

Men and women notice the unusual... attractive, UNattractive, tall, short, fat, skinny. We notice what is more unusual in life.

I do not understand the idea that there is evil in this.

What IS primitive (in my opinion), is the idea that a woman's worth is equal to her attractiveness. Again, I am NOT saying this is YOUR opinion. I'm saying that this is the message inundating our society.


~dancer~

[_barrelomonkeys]

If your comment is solely on the popular culture's objectification of women, I am fully on board, ticket paid for, and excited for the trip. However, to tie men's natural reaction to this manifestation is unacceptable to me. We have had these thoughts of women long before there were "Vogue" or "insert insipid women's magazine title here" (I'm teasing)

I thought you were blaming men for this phenomenon. And the crux of your argument was the FACT that men admire women's form. We do. WE always will. I don't think that's bad. I love women and all they have to offer. I believe women are awfully quick to judge men as somehow evil or dirty or objectifying women when we notice a shapely woman. We are not. We are normal. We are built that way. And I choose to not fight this particular natural inclination.

Actually I think it is very natural for men to be attracted to women, or other men, or livestock. Whatever they are attracted to. I have problems with girls/women being told that they are responsible for men feeling this way and placing "blame" on women for what is actually something that is very natural for men to experience and feel.

I saw a girl just yesterday. Could have been anywhere from 15 to 25, I don't know. I don't remember what she looks like now, but at the time I thought she was very beautiful. So where does that place me on the scale of evil?

No where as long as she is not told by you that she is somehow responsible for you being attracted to her.

Barrel, women are NOT to blame for men having these thoughts. Neither are men! It is natural. It is the way we are.

Yah. I know that Hoops... that was the point of this thread. ;p

Try to keep up!

[Shadrak]

One more thought before I head out. I believe women are equally responsible for how society values us. We enable men to view us a sex objects if we buy into this culture.

Women can be very vain and may use their beauty for power over another. I think many times women dress immodestly, sexually, or wear expensive clothing to impress other women. Some feel power by making other girls envious of them. Some women take it too far and get off on making men look at them in front of their girlfriend or wife. Some of these same girls can be the ones to go after a married or taken man.

I think modesty can also include not wearing clothing that is used to make yourself feel above another. I see so many young girls that are mean and critical of those who don't dress trendy or who don't wear the expensive designer labels.