Modesty & LDS Girls/Women & Sexually Frustrated Men
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_barrelomonkeys
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm
Bond I agree, it's not the dress that makes a woman attractive to a man. When I blathered earlier (the one I deleted) I told stories of when I was young... I would never have considered that the way I looked (combat boots and a nasty snarl) was in any way enticing to men. They came out of the woodwork with propositions.
barrelomonkeys wrote:Bond I agree, it's not the dress that makes a woman attractive to a man. When I blathered earlier (the one I deleted) I told stories of when I was young... I would never have considered that the way I looked (combat boots and a nasty snarl) was in any way enticing to men. They came out of the woodwork with propositions.
Oh now you HAVE to have a picture of THAT look!!!!
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_Bond...James Bond
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am
liz3564 wrote:I would venture to say that most men would absolutely blush if they knew the kinds of things women discuss amongst their "girlfriends". We make locker room talk sound like child's play.
;)
Alright....if you don't drop some tidbits it makes you a tease...;)
barrelomonkeys wrote:Bond I agree, it's not the dress that makes a woman attractive to a man. When I blathered earlier (the one I deleted) I told stories of when I was young... I would never have considered that the way I looked (combat boots and a nasty snarl) was in any way enticing to men. They came out of the woodwork with propositions.
Men know that an attractive young lady is an ATTRACTIVE YOUNG LADY! She could be dressed as Adolf Hitler and it wouldn't deter most young men.....actually those shiny black boots would probably be a turn on....not sure bout the mustache though....
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
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_Yoda
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_huckelberry
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am
Dancer, perhaps your reply to me that we should not expect the problem patterns to be erased in just a few years has wisdom. Perhaps the little pieces of change now can become substantial in many years. I was hoping for specific suggestions for change. That might not seem entirely fair in that my post consisted of problems only.
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_truth dancer
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 4792
- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm
Hi Huck...
I think an idea so deeply rooted in the cultures of the human will take a long time to change but I feel quite certain it will, if our species survives long enough. (smile).
It has taken literally six thousand years for women to be understood as fully human (at least in some parts of the world). I'm simplifying this but it is pretty much the case, (since the origin of patriarchy, when women began to be owned).
I truly believe that as men come to respect women and see them as something other than sexual objects, (I'm talking collectively here and know there are great men who do not), AND, as women come to understand they are more than their bodies, (and their relationship to a man), there will be a shift in how women are treated and valued.
It comes with enlightenment, just like other changes. I use the example of slavery because I think it is a good one. For thousands of years it was not considered immoral to own slaves by much of the world. But, an awareness entered the human psyche and a new respect and care emerged.
I think a similar thing will occur regarding women. It may still be a ways off but I see signs all over the place... women are now being educated, are involved in governments, can own property, can vote... and most important of all, women, for the first time in a very, VERY long time own their own body. This has occurred in my life time. (It has only been in the last 25 years or so that a man can be arrested for raping his wife, for example).
Again, I think respect as human beings and equality for women will not happen in my lifetime, but I do believe it will eventually exist.
Anyway... what can we do? The more we teach girls and young women their true value the better. The more we let go of objectifying women the better. The more women are viewed as contributing something other than sex to society the better.
I think as each individual moves toward respect and care and equality, we will collectively move toward a world more healthy and considerate toward women.
:-)
~dancer~
Let me be clear that I think a similar move regarding men is also beneficial to our planetary family.
Dancer, perhaps your reply to me that we should not expect the problem patterns to be erased in just a few years has wisdom. Perhaps the little pieces of change now can become substantial in many years. I was hoping for specific suggestions for change. That might not seem entirely fair in that my post consisted of problems only.
I think an idea so deeply rooted in the cultures of the human will take a long time to change but I feel quite certain it will, if our species survives long enough. (smile).
It has taken literally six thousand years for women to be understood as fully human (at least in some parts of the world). I'm simplifying this but it is pretty much the case, (since the origin of patriarchy, when women began to be owned).
I truly believe that as men come to respect women and see them as something other than sexual objects, (I'm talking collectively here and know there are great men who do not), AND, as women come to understand they are more than their bodies, (and their relationship to a man), there will be a shift in how women are treated and valued.
It comes with enlightenment, just like other changes. I use the example of slavery because I think it is a good one. For thousands of years it was not considered immoral to own slaves by much of the world. But, an awareness entered the human psyche and a new respect and care emerged.
I think a similar thing will occur regarding women. It may still be a ways off but I see signs all over the place... women are now being educated, are involved in governments, can own property, can vote... and most important of all, women, for the first time in a very, VERY long time own their own body. This has occurred in my life time. (It has only been in the last 25 years or so that a man can be arrested for raping his wife, for example).
Again, I think respect as human beings and equality for women will not happen in my lifetime, but I do believe it will eventually exist.
Anyway... what can we do? The more we teach girls and young women their true value the better. The more we let go of objectifying women the better. The more women are viewed as contributing something other than sex to society the better.
I think as each individual moves toward respect and care and equality, we will collectively move toward a world more healthy and considerate toward women.
:-)
~dancer~
Let me be clear that I think a similar move regarding men is also beneficial to our planetary family.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
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_barrelomonkeys
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 3004
- Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm
truth dancer wrote:
I truly believe that as men come to respect women and see them as something other than sexual objects, (I'm talking collectively here and know there are great men who do not), AND, as women come to understand they are more than their bodies, (and their relationship to a man), there will be a shift in how women are treated and valued.
Hi TD. I agree with everything you wrote.. but as I thought about what you wrote above I believe women can share equal blame in our Western culture for wanting to be sexual objects. Too many women and girls associate sex with power and that is something that I feel may set us back even more.
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_truth dancer
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm
Hi TD. I agree with everything you wrote.. but as I thought about what you wrote above I believe women can share equal blame in our Western culture for wanting to be sexual objects. Too many women and girls associate sex with power and that is something that I feel may set us back even more.
Again, I am not blaming men or women... I'm speaking of society as a whole.
I think I mentioned that women buy into the idea their worth is in their bodies, and absolutely contribute to the problem.
There is no question about this.
So long as girls and women view themselves as sexual objects it will continue, AND, so long as men view women as sexual objects, it will continue.
We have a world that for the past six thousand years have bought into the idea that women were created for the pleasure of men....
It is a long standing teaching that will take a long time to release!
:-)
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
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_barrelomonkeys
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 3004
- Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm
truth dancer wrote:Hi TD. I agree with everything you wrote.. but as I thought about what you wrote above I believe women can share equal blame in our Western culture for wanting to be sexual objects. Too many women and girls associate sex with power and that is something that I feel may set us back even more.
Again, I am not blaming men or women... I'm speaking of society as a whole.
I think I mentioned that women buy into the idea their worth is in their bodies, and absolutely contribute to the problem.
There is no question about this.
So long as girls and women view themselves as sexual objects it will continue, AND, so long as men view women as sexual objects, it will continue.
We have a world that for the past six thousand years have bought into the idea that women were created for the pleasure of men....
It is a long standing teaching that will take a long time to release!
:-)
~dancer~
I shouldn't have used the word blame! I'm not sure what word I should have used though. :)
I think I understood what you meant about how women view themselves as a special treat for men.. what I was mentioning was women (and I know this is how I viewed it and many of my friends then and now still) that view our sexuality and our body as not a treat for men but something that was powerful and we could use and abuse men because of this power we held over them with our bodies. Tease, taunt, etc..This was empowering.. or it felt that way to me atleast for a while and I still talk to young girls that feel this same way.
I see this as just as dangerous as the traditional views.