Moroni, a Man Unlike Any Other.

[_Chad (Swedeboy) Spjut]

Moroni, a Man Unlike Any Other.

“Yea, their runty legs did buckle.” 1 Lehi 29:13-56

Over the years, the stories told of the Golden Plates and the Hill Cumorah were always intriguing. The hill was supposedly filled with Nephite records (enough to fill several wagon loads) and of course the sword of Laban was there as well. The following is from Brigham Young as he recounts the experience of Cowdery and Smith:

"Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light, but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in corners and along the walls.

"The first time they went there the SWORD OF LABAN hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: 'This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ." I tell you this is coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it... I take the liberty of referring to those things so they will not be forgotten and lost." (19 Journal of Discourses 38)

Now, if Moroni was the last surviving person of his race, and he was given the charge to finish the Book of Mormon and deposit the plates in a spot which the Lard commanded him, which just happened to be in upstate New York. And if the limited geography theory is correct, then not only did Moroni have to carry the very heavy Golden Plates to upstate New York, but he also had to carry the Liahona, the Sword of Laban and those wagon loads of Nephite records, all without the benefit of wagons or horses or oxen to pull this wagon train of Nephite treasures.
The first book of Lehi tells us of his struggles. Please cross reference with Zelph 3:29-85.
"Yea, I did use my mighty tapir and herd of llama to carry the sacred works of my people. I Moroni, being a man of large stature, not unlike Nephi of old, I nevertheless am unable to fulfill these mighty commands alone. And it came to pass, that many tapir perished under the exceedingly great weight of the sacred works of my people. Yea, their runty legs did buckle under the weight of so mighty a task. Yea verily despite the buckling of runty tapir legs, I know that God shall prepare a way for his commands to be fulfilled.

And it came to pass, that I did use the skins of the buckled tapir as sleds to tow the sacred works of my people by the power of the mighty llama of which I possessed great abundance. And it came to pass, that as I endeavored to coax my mighty llama herd to pull the sacred works of my people on the sled skins of the buckled tapir, I did beseech the Lord in prayer. "Oh Lord, maker of the mighty tapir which so valiantly carried my brethren into many battles, yea even unto their destruction! Oh great one who sawest fit to buckle the legs of my formerly mighty tapir whose skins are now used as sleds to be towed behind my herd of mighty llama, hear my prayer. Yea, my llama herd will not yield unto the enticing of my words and whip. Bless them from the chaffing of the cords, which bind them to the tapir skin sleds, which carry the sacred works of my people. Yea Lord, I know not what to do. How shall I fulfill the command of taking many heavy sacred works of my people, and deposit them in the enchanted hill which the gentiles will one day confuse as the place of the final battle of my people with the Lamanites?”

Unfortunately this is where the record ends. We may never know just how he did it. Regardless, Moroni was a man unlike any other. Yea verily and amen.

[_Inconceivable]

Thanks for the information Chad,

Now I have a better idea why Jesus wasn't so enthusiastic about retranslating that lost manuscript.

I noticed the near subtle and perhaps more accurate translation of beast of burden as the mighty Tapir. But who would believe indians road tapirs? I can see why he substituted the more believable animal: "horse". I just don't think we're capable of sufficient faith to believe tapirs to be the mighty animals they once were.

[_beastie]

Now, if Moroni was the last surviving person of his race, and he was given the charge to finish the Book of Mormon and deposit the plates in a spot which the Lard commanded him, which just happened to be in upstate New York. And if the limited geography theory is correct, then not only did Moroni have to carry the very heavy Golden Plates to upstate New York, but he also had to carry the Liahona, the Sword of Laban and those wagon loads of Nephite records, all without the benefit of wagons or horses or oxen to pull this wagon train of Nephite treasures.

Good point! Perhaps Moroni just used his transponder machine.

The longer I am out of Mormonism, the more ridiculous the claims appear. It's a testament to the power of indoctrination that anyone believes this stuff.

[_Scottie]

"The first time they went there the SWORD OF LABAN hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: 'This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ." I tell you this is coming not only from Oliver Cowdery, but others who were familiar with it, and who understood it... I take the liberty of referring to those things so they will not be forgotten and lost." (19 Journal of Discourses 38)

Isn't it fascinating that the reason they can't find any steel is that the LGT Book of Mormon area is an environment where metals corrode quickly. How were they able to keep the Sword of Laban for 1000 years in such a corrosive environment?

[_beastie]

Isn't it fascinating that the reason they can't find any steel is that the LGT Book of Mormon area is an environment where metals corrode quickly. How were they able to keep the Sword of Laban for 1000 years in such a corrosive environment?

That's baloney, anyway. They've found plenty of metal artifacts in mesoamerica, just none that were products of metallurgy in the right time frame.

See more details here:

http://zarahemlacitylimits.com/wiki/ind ... Metallurgy

[_Scottie]

Chad, if I may play devil's advocate, where does it ever say that Moroni was the only one that carried all this stuff, and further, that he carried it all at once?

Perhaps this treasure cache in NY had been there for centuries. Perhaps men called of God had been making this trip for years and years, taking small amounts of documents and artifacts to be deposited in this holy treasure room. Perhaps Moroni was just the last one to put anything in there.

I still maintain that I missed my calling as an apologist...

[_Chad (Swedeboy) Spjut]

You can't be serious Scottie, you're joking right? Right? How many hoops must one jump through to make the absurd plausible? Put down the magic glasses, and stare reality in the face. Moroni is a fairy tale, with or without a tapir in tow.

[_Scottie]

You can't be serious Scottie, you're joking right? Right? How many hoops must one jump through to make the absurd plausible? Put down the magic glasses, and stare reality in the face. Moroni is a fairy tale, with or without a tapir in tow.

The Mormon church may very well be, and probably is, false. But you can't just start making up arguments against the church and throw them out hoping we will all just suck them up and say, "YEAH!!! THAT TOO!!!"

If your argument has a hole in it, I'm going to point it out. I'm for truth, not just bashing the church any chance I get.

See, I got out of the mindset that I shouldn't question things. So, that's what I do. I'm questioning you now, and apparently you can't take it. Move back to RfM if you just want everybody to slap your back and say, "Good call! Yeah! Stupid Mormons!!" Either that, or provide some sort of evidence that Moroni single handedly filled this treasure vault.

[_Chad (Swedeboy) Spjut]

Scottie, there is no argument here. There is no treasure in Cumorah. The onus is on the claimant, I am simply pointing out the absurdity of the original claim. When archeological digs were conducted on a limited scale at Cumorah in New York no evidence of anything remotely Book of Mormon was found. What more do you require in satisfying the absurd? I am not looking for an echo chamber here or anywhere else. So back to you, where is the evidence? Or did the treasures slip away into the earth when the archeologists made their digs?

[_Scottie]

Scottie, there is no argument here. There is no treasure in Cumorah. The onus is on the claimant, I am simply pointing out the absurdity of the original claim. When archeological digs were conducted on a limited scale at Cumorah in New York no evidence of anything remotely Book of Mormon was found. What more do you require in satisfying the absurd? I am not looking for an echo chamber here or anywhere else. So back to you, where is the evidence? Or did the treasures slip away into the earth when the archeologists made their digs?

That is absolutely NOT what your original claim was.

Your claim was that it is absurd that Moroni could have carried all of these plates and artifacts from wherever the LGT took place to upstate New York.

You said NOTHING about whether there actually was a treasure room.

As for the onus, it is on the one making the claim. You made the claim. You have to back it up.

Mind you, I'm not saying the Book of Mormon is true, or that there is treasure in the Hill Cumorah. I think it's as much bunk as the next guy. However, as I said before, if your argument has holes in it, prepare to be called on it. Your original post is full of holes.

Besides, not that I buy it, but haven't you heard of the 2 Cumorah's theory? That what they were talking about was a vision they saw of a different hill Cumorah somewhere within the LGT, that actually DOES have a treasure room. I don't buy it, personally, but it's out there...