The Nehor wrote: I will be grateful to Joseph forever for enduring the things he endured to bring forth the Gospel to the world. I have a testimony that he brought forth the true Gospel because I have a testimony that the Gospel I have is the true Gospel.
The gospel of Jesus Christ, with the atonement, baptism, commandments, etc., has been here since Christ lived on the earth. Joseph had nothing to do with it. That which Joseph supposedly restored looks very little like the ancient church, yet the ancient church is supposedly what he was restoring.
I do believe in the spirit. I know the difference between doling something because I felt by the spirit that it was right or whether I'm just being manipulated by a skilled leader. In my experience, church has plenty of both to offer.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
mocnarf wrote:Thank you for sparing us your hot air.
And thank you, in turn, for your kindness.
I'm touched.
I can't understand why faithful Latter-day Saints aren't flocking to this board, where civil, substantive, and mutually respectful dialogue flourishes so beautifully.
I think it's the lack of free donuts and coffee.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Sethbag wrote:I might as well be in a class where otherwise intelligent adults learn and discuss the doings of Aragorn and Gandalf as if it were real.
You're welcome to come hang out with my friends, you don't have to hint that you need an invitation :)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
SatanWasSetUp wrote:Did you also cringe when she mentioned that Noah did all these amazing things when he was 600 years old? That's one tough old man. I knew a TBM who said that the reason people lived so long before the flood was because there was so much water in the atmosphere that helped us live longer. All this water came to earth for the flood and we don't have that watery atmosphere anymore so now we don't live as long. These are some of the cringe-worthy ideas that I expect Internet Mormons to bite their tongues over.
Thank you Skousen.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
harmony wrote:I was with you, right up until here:
The Nehor wrote: I will be grateful to Joseph forever for enduring the things he endured to bring forth the Gospel to the world. I have a testimony that he brought forth the true Gospel because I have a testimony that the Gospel I have is the true Gospel.
The gospel of Jesus Christ, with the atonement, baptism, commandments, etc., has been here since Christ lived on the earth. Joseph had nothing to do with it. That which Joseph supposedly restored looks very little like the ancient church, yet the ancient church is supposedly what he was restoring.
Joseph did not restore the ancient Church, he restored the same Gospel. Plus the Book of Mormon cleared the air quite a bit by offering definitive answers to many of the controversies plaguing Christianity for over a millenium. The D&C cleared up methods of procedure and the Pearl of Great Price has answers about the pre and post mortal lives. Brigham said that he followed Joseph because the other preachers taught morality, Joseph taught about God, heaven, and spirits.
Edit: I just realized I put in 4 consecutive posts, sorry all :(
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
harmony wrote:I was with you, right up until here:
The Nehor wrote: I will be grateful to Joseph forever for enduring the things he endured to bring forth the Gospel to the world. I have a testimony that he brought forth the true Gospel because I have a testimony that the Gospel I have is the true Gospel.
The gospel of Jesus Christ, with the atonement, baptism, commandments, etc., has been here since Christ lived on the earth. Joseph had nothing to do with it. That which Joseph supposedly restored looks very little like the ancient church, yet the ancient church is supposedly what he was restoring.
Joseph did not restore the ancient Church, he restored the same Gospel. Plus the Book of Mormon cleared the air quite a bit by offering definitive answers to many of the controversies plaguing Christianity for over a millenium. The D&C cleared up methods of procedure and the Pearl of Great Price has answers about the pre and post mortal lives. Brigham said that he followed Joseph because the other preachers taught morality, Joseph taught about God, heaven, and spirits.
Edit: I just realized I put in 4 consecutive posts, sorry all :(
What are you going to do when you realize Joseph made it all up?
Does your bishop know you think Joseph made it all up? Is he fine with you having a temple recommend and all in this state of unbelief? I'd be interested to know how many temple attending Mormons privately confide to their bishop that they believe it was all made up.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
harmony wrote:What are you going to do when you realize Joseph made it all up?
If I were relying solely on Joseph's testimony these are the kinds of things that would keep me awake at night. As it is, I sleep soundly.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
SatanWasSetUp wrote:Most TBMs on internet message boards appear intelligent, understand the issues, but have figured out a way to make Mormonism work. For example, the limited geography theory which accepts the Behring Straight migration to the Americas. And most internet TBMs believe in evolution, a local flood for Noah, and a billions of years old Earth. So my question is directed at the so called "Internet Mormons." How can you stand to sit through gospel doctrine class, or any sunday church meeting where the "Chapel Mormons" teach a literal Adam and Eve, a global flood, and a Hemispheric model for the Book of Mormon? Your tongues must get bloody from biting them for three hours straight.
First off, it's not very often that any of these things you mention are brought up in Gospel Doctrine class. Second, the truth is, is that there is a flip side or at least an alternate or reasonable way of approaching any of the so-called issues/controversies that come up. Lastly, I'm willing to concede that I have not yet become an expert on each and every possible roadblock to belief/faith...to the extent that I can defer making a final judgment concerning those things that are bothersome at first glance. As I have done so, I have bit by bit, here and there, been able to resolve or at least find good reason(s) to put some of the "hard things" aside and remain a practicing member of the church...and do so in good faith and with my integrity intact.