Not the best way, but its the Lord's way.

Post by **_Black Moclips** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:00 pm

Well I stayed home from church yesterday (baby had a rash). (Off topic comment: Why does the time seem to fly by when i stay home from church, but when I go to church, three hours seems like 10 hours?! I was looking forward to some nice quiet time while the baby slept and whammo!, three hours went by like 3 minutes! But yet attending sacrament meeting is like eternity. I joke with my wife that heaven is just one long eternal sacrament meeting, and if that is the case, I'd probably rather not go!)

Anyway, it was ward conference and when my wife got home, she told me about what they spoke about. Sounds like it was the "Stay out of Debt" routine, which makes its rounds, well, usually every other ward conference. She prefaced this next part with "Oh, when I heard this, I was glad you weren't there!" Apparently the stake president holds up a church pamphlet on getting out of debt. I'm not sure which one it is, but its probably the Marion G Romney one that's been around for a while. Anyway, the SP says that he discussed the pamphlet with some friends of his who critiqued it saying that it isn't the best way to get out and stay out of debt. Then the SP stated that, yes, he actually agreed with them-it isn't the best way. BUT! The pamphlet is the Lord's way, and that is the one we should use! What? A revelation on debt? Did I miss a D&C section somewhere? Huh?

Well we laughed about it laying in bed last night. Not the best way, but we are going to do it anyway. Classic line.

Post by **_ZekeTheElder** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:05 pm

Well the Lord is a known screw up after all.

_Yoda · Post by **_Yoda** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:10 pm

Black Moclips wrote:Off topic comment: Why does the time seem to fly by when I stay home from church, but when I go to church, three hours seems like 10 hours?! I was looking forward to some nice quiet time while the baby slept and whammo!, three hours went by like 3 minutes!

Time flies when you're having fun! LOL

The Church has actually evolved as far as their stance on debt. It used to be that they advised you to stay out of debt for EVERYTHING. They even frowned on house and car payments. That's actually not the case, anymore.

Most of the debt pamphlets I've seen are pretty common sense.

The only thing the Church makes a big deal of is paying your tithing first.

The claim is always if you pay your tithing first, then the Church will take care of you if something happens.

Still, if you're down to the wire financially, and you have the choice between paying tithing or paying your house payment, I would pay the house note.

;)

Edited to add--- I LOVE your sig line! :)

Post by **_Some Schmo** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:11 pm

"Not the best way, but its the Lord's way."

This should be the church's new motto.

Post by **_SatanWasSetUp** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:58 pm

I wonder what his friends didn't like about the pamphlet? Let me guess, they probably think making charitable donations first, before you pay your bills, is a bad idea.

And your right about how sacrament meeting seems like an eternity, and that's probably what goes on in the Celestial Kingdom. In fact, you probably don't live forever in the Celestial Kingdom, it just seems like it.

_Nephi · Post by **_Nephi** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:14 pm

Damn, my 11 year old can word herself better so as not to seem so stupid.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:18 pm

Staying out of debt is a good start, but hardly sufficient. You really need to be putting some money into savings or you'll have even more trouble down the road.

I hear 10% is a decent number although 15% would probably be better.

Yeah, I know that most people are just scraping to make ends meet, but part of that is due to what our culture demands from us. Many of us could get by just fine with cheaper (but reliable) automobiles. Many of us could get cheaper internet and could have lived in a smaller house (except that our culture frowns on such things). We can do without cable and cell-phones. We can go on cheaper vacations. We can have the grandparents pay for themselves to visit us instead of us paying hundreds of dollars to visit them. We can tell our kids to buy their own cars if they want their own so badly. We can also make them pay for college themselves (I did).

Post by **_Who Knows** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:34 pm

asbestosman wrote:Staying out of debt is a good start, but hardly sufficient. You really need to be putting some money into savings or you'll have even more trouble down the road.

I hear 10% is a decent number although 15% would probably be better.

If you're in your 20's, 10% is enough. If you're in your 30's, 15% should be good. A rough goal to shoot for is to have 2x your salary saved by the time you're 40. For example, if you're making $100k, you should have saved $200k by the time you're 40 years old. At that point, the yearly earnings (compounded) will give you a pretty decent retirement.

Man, if only Mormons were as good at saving as they were at paying tithing...

Post by **_wenglund** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:39 pm

"Not the best way, but its the Lord's way."

This reminds me of when Judas Iscariot thought the money spent on a pound of spikenard oil used to anoint Christ's feet "was not the best way", but instead believed it should have been used to feed the poor; whereas Christ countered with "the Lord's way" (as preparation for Christ's burial in the future). See: Jn 12:1-8

The point being, mankind may think one way is best, whereas the Lord may think another best ("For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD"--Isa 55:8, and "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God"--1 Cor 3:19). Those of us who believe in God, and who believe he, in his infinite wisdom, knowledge, and love, knows better than man what is best for mankind, may reasonably think it wise to follow the "Lord's way" even though it may not appear to be "the best way" to us.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Post by **_Some Schmo** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:40 pm

Who Knows wrote:
asbestosman wrote:Staying out of debt is a good start, but hardly sufficient. You really need to be putting some money into savings or you'll have even more trouble down the road.

I hear 10% is a decent number although 15% would probably be better.

If you're in your 20's, 10% is enough. If you're in your 30's, 15% should be good. A rough goal to shoot for is to have 2x your salary saved by the time you're 40. For example, if you're making $100k, you should have saved $200k by the time you're 40 years old. At that point, the yearly earnings (compounded) will give you a pretty decent retirement.

Man, if only Mormons were as good at saving as they were at paying tithing...

The tithing issue is the thing I think is one of (if not the) most harmful teachings in the church. When I think about tithing, I feel that there could never be enough atheist evangelicalism. Talk about a massive abuse of the faith con.

That money should be invested in a person's self, because I can guarantee you that god isn't going to swoop down and rescue you when you retire.

This is one of those "why are religious people so dumb" issues. It should just be common sense.