DiscussMormonism.com

First off, let me say that I believed as a Mormon that I felt the Holy Ghost. I know many exmos didn't have the experience of a burning bosom or hearing that Still Small Voice, but I believed I did. Not only did I feel a sense of peace, clarity of thought, and a wash of emotion when I bore my testimony, I felt it in other places as well. I felt it when out in nature. I felt it at the Catholic wedding of a good friend. I felt it when I held my babies and they wrapped their tiny hands around my little finger. I even felt it at a rock concert once.

The problem with the Holy Ghost began when I discovered troubling aspects of Mormon history. I prayed and prayed to feel better about Joseph Smith marrying other mens' wives, but no comfort from the Spirit came. I prayed harder and with more fervor and intent than I'd ever before prayed when I asked God about the Book of Abraham to see if it were true and if Joseph Smith really translated it in the way he claimed. But the Holy Ghost was silent. He just wouldn't comfort me. He wouldn't help me resolve my dilemma.

Finally, I was in a state of almost constant despair. I was praying night and day for comfort. I felt sick all the time. So one night in October, I prayed and told God I no longer believed Mormonism was true. I laid it all out for Him. And you know what? I had the most powerful spiritual witness of my life that night. At least I felt like I did. I told my husband I knew the Church wasn't true and months of sheer hell followed. My husband was livid. Thankfully, hell didn't last too long. My husband eventually left the church and our whole family turned in our resignation letters together.

After leaving Mormonism, I still experienced what felt like the Holy Ghost, but I learned that other people experienced it, too. Catholics experience it. And it confirms to them that they're in the True Church. Muslims believe Allah has let them know Islam is the true path to God. Pentecostals believe the Holy Ghost causes them to speak in tongues. Are they experiencing the Holy Ghost? Does He tell everyone what they want to hear - that their beliefs are correct? Or is that feeling not really any supernatural being speaking to people's hearts at all, but instead something all too human, something chemical, biological? I think it is.

People who claim knowledge from the Holy Ghost always say they KNOW it was the Holy Ghost speaking to them and not simply an emotional experience. Everyone claims that. How, then, can one discern the Spirit from emotions or even delusions? Do Mormons who claim knowledge of things via the whisperings of an unbodied member of the Godhead think they've got the real Holy Ghost and every other religionist has a fake one who tells them untruths?

How can one know feelings, thoughts, clarity of thought, peace or emotion are from a supernatural being? I have those experiences now. I have moments of clear thought where I learn something new about myself or the world around me and I think it's attributable to something internal, like brain synapses firing in just the right way, not something external, like the Holy Ghost.

So, I ask again, if you believe in the Holy Ghost, how do you know He's speaking to you? How do you distinguish His voice from other emotions? And how do you explain His telling different people different things, usually confirming their own rightness?

Curious,

KA

These are good questions, KA, and I don't really have time to address this as thoroughly as I would like to, so I'll share a few thoughts now, and hopefully some a little later when I have more time.

I do believe that the Holy Ghost speaks to us, comforts us, and confirms things to us.

However, I don't think that Mormons have the only ability to receive these confirmations. This is why, in my estimation, I have always felt that there is more than one pathway back to God.

I think that God wants us to be happy and is going to help guide us in the direction that will ultimately help our families and our individual needs.

Let me ask you this. Have you been happier since you have left Mormonism?

Has your overall relationship with your family been healthier and have you developed a better sense of self?

From the things you have shared here, my guess is that your answers to these questions would be an affirming "yes".

It sounds like Mormonism was stifling you, and the Lord knew this, so He offered you a different path.

For some, Mormonism works great. For others, it's not so great.

When you did feel these moments of peace and comfort, were you doing anything that would be considered morally wrong or harmful to yourself or others?

No.

You experienced these feelings during precious, comforting, "spiritual" times. You were communing with nature....during the birth of your children.

I have to go back to my "day job" and lecture some more, but I'll continue my thoughts later.

Great thread!

:)

I posed this question to schryver in another thread (did you steal my idea?). :)

How do you know it's the Holy Ghost?

They know, because they've experienced something that benefits or enlightens them, and they've been taught that it's the holy ghost (whereas otherwise they might not know what caused it).

Who Knows wrote:I posed this question to schryver in another thread (did you steal my idea?). :)

How do you know it's the Holy Ghost?

They know, because they've experienced something that benefits or enlightens them, and they've been taught that it's the holy ghost (whereas otherwise they might not know what caused it).

Yes, it's quite circular.

We're telling you the truth.
You can know this because if you pray you'll get a good feeling from the Holy Ghost confirming that we're telling you the truth.
How do you know it's the Holy Ghost? Because we're telling you the truth.

Who Knows wrote:I posed this question to schryver in another thread (did you steal my idea?). :)

How do you know it's the Holy Ghost?

They know, because they've experienced something that benefits or enlightens them, and they've been taught that it's the holy ghost (whereas otherwise they might not know what caused it).

I didn't mean to steal it, Who Knows! I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately, and it basically started way back when I wrote the post about Mormon arrogance and then continued with Coggins's post about me moving to Delphi, lol! So many Mormons claim to know things via revelation from the Holy Ghost, so I'm interested in knowing how they even know the Holy Ghost is speaking to them in the first place.

I noticed your post and Will's reply after I started this thread. I think Will and I posted at exactly the same time. His reply to you was better than most Mormon replies to the question. I wonder if he'd mind copy/pasting his reply here? It certainly answers my question as well as yours.

Hopefully you can forgive me for inadvertently stealing your idea since you're probably still raking in the money selling those pics of me on the beach. :P

KA

KA - I was just kidding with you. I just feel validated that someone else had a similar idea that I did.

As far as the pics go, I decided not to sell them. I'm treasuring them all for myself. ;)

KA, I have a theory about this. I shared it on MAD once, and I'll paraphrase it here.

Most LDS, when pressed on how they know it's the spirit and not just a good feeling, will usually say something to the effect that the spirit is SO much more powerful than a "good feeling". That, if you had felt it, you would most assuredly know that it was, indeed, the spirit. Absolutely no way to deny it.

Now, lets contrast that with someone that has clinical depression. Or clinical rage. We all feel depression and anger to some level, but those that are diagnosed with true clinical cases of depression and rage would say the same thing as a TBM. That the depression/anger that they feel is SO much stronger than what we feel.

If there is a gene that predisposes people to feel depression and anger at these intense levels, why is it so hard to believe that a similar gene doesn't exist for feeling good feelings/the spirit? This would also explain why the majority of us just feel good feelings without this overwhelming sensation that is so much more powerful.

These feelings may lie dormant for a long time in some people, until some event unleashes these emotions. Even after they are unleashed, there are trigger events that may cause them to re-appear, and often they grow stronger each time. The same goes for the spirit. Perhaps this predetermined genetic behaviour has been lying dormant for a long time, and when the missionaries come a knockin, it unleashes the feelings of "the spirit". Then, by reading scriptures, praying, etc., you know...trigger actions, the feelings will come back. Even stronger.

The same could be said for the death of a loved one. This event could unleash a genetic predisposition to depression, and send the person into a downward spiral.

So, for those that claim to KNOW it's the spirit, I call BS. I think they very strongly BELIEVE it's the spirit, but they can't know.

Scottie wrote:So, for those that claim to KNOW it's the spirit, I call BS. I think they very strongly BELIEVE it's the spirit, but they can't know.

And the reason they believe that is that they've been told to believe it.

Scottie wrote:So, for those that claim to KNOW it's the spirit, I call BS. I think they very strongly BELIEVE it's the spirit, but they can't know.

Hi, Scottie.

I call BS, too, and also earlier called BS on Cogg's claim to know with a perfect certainty that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ and that Mormonism is true. Understandably, he thinks he knows those things by the power of the Holy Ghost. I believed that too, when I was a Mormon.

Still, I'm interested in how the LDS themselves believe they distinguish the spirit from mere feelings. I remember pondering that question myself several years ago while still a member.

KA

KimberlyAnn wrote:

Scottie wrote:So, for those that claim to KNOW it's the spirit, I call BS. I think they very strongly BELIEVE it's the spirit, but they can't know.

Hi, Scottie.

I call BS, too, and also earlier called BS on Cogg's claim to know with a perfect certainty that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ and that Mormonism is true. Understandably, he thinks he knows those things by the power of the Holy Ghost. I believed that too, when I was a Mormon.

Still, I'm interested in how the LDS themselves believe they distinguish the spirit from mere feelings. I remember pondering that question myself several years ago while still a member.

KA

Here are some answers I've gotten to the question:

1. If you'd felt the spirit, you wouldn't have to ask.
2. It's much more than mere feelings; it's a really strong feeling.
3. Are you saying I'm delusional?
4. You need to humble yourself.