Anti-Mormonism = FAD

[_Polygamy Porter]

Wade's just saying what others have said many times before, albeit with fewer words: The church may not be what it claims to be, but it's still a great way to (fill in the blank, usually raise a family)..

Yeah but poor OLD wade is a ornery bachelor.

[_Sethbag]

However, I am not sure that dropping the F-bomb on them, or perhaps putting your religious intolerance and judgementalism on display like you have to some degree here, will lend itself to that end.

ROFL. What was that quote about modern religion being reduced until it really stands for nothing anymore than not saying the word "f***"?

Did you get that quote from the profound thinker and secular culturalists, Snoop Dogg? ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm trying to remember where I saw that quote. I forget. But the way it was said was pretty funny, and pretty insightful I thought too.

[_wenglund]

However, I am not sure that dropping the F-bomb on them, or perhaps putting your religious intolerance and judgementalism on display like you have to some degree here, will lend itself to that end.

ROFL. What was that quote about modern religion being reduced until it really stands for nothing anymore than not saying the word "f***"?

Did you get that quote from the profound thinker and secular culturalists, Snoop Dogg? ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm trying to remember where I saw that quote. I forget. But the way it was said was pretty funny, and pretty insightful I thought too.

I would think it only insightful to secularists whose intellectual high water mark is the use of the word. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I am sorry, but once again I do not recognize the words you just put into my mouth. I happen to believe strongly that the Church is what it claims to be. However, unlike some, I am also capable of understanding and respecting differing points of view. My comments weren't self-referential, but I was speaking of those who may not believe the Church is all that it claims to be. To bad you failed to grasp that clear and significant distinction (which I find surprising for someone who is supposed to be training others on comprehension) while entirely missing the point.

Wade,

I know that you strongly believe the church is what it claims to be. You were speaking about people who doubt that, and suggesting they are better off sticking with the church that gives them a firm footing in guiding them through life, despite their doubts or even disbelief. It's better to stick with your path, regardless of your doubts, then have "no path at all". (whatever you imagine that means)

No matter how you want to dress it up, Wade, you're basically counseling that people who - unlike you - do not have a strong belief in the truthfulness of the church - should still stick with it because it's a good path.

While the highlighted section above hits close to the mark, the rest of your editorializing only vaguely resembles my way of thinking, and misses my key point. But, I do appreciate you at least trying.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_beastie]

By all means, Wade, clarify. You have a very long habit of protesting that others are distorting your comments without then clarifying as to the difference between the distortion and your actual comments.

[_neworder]

for 10+ years I have been working with the Youth in some way or another - I've been on scores of camp-outs and made many friendships I cherish.. I was a good mentor, a shoulder to cry on, I always have couch to crash on, or advice to give when girls became more important than power rangers.. I sometimes worry while at church or walking through the n-hood that one of my boys will ask me why I don't teach them anymore, or participate in scouts.

I have attended three mission "reports" in the last year where I have been very disturbed with the dilemma of what the F*** do I do now. do I tell these boys(whom I love like sons) everything about the church I should have taught them 10 years ago when they were deacons? do I track down the boys who are off at school or married, and let them know Joseph Smith was a scheming philanderer and the Book of Mormon is most likely fiction, and "by the way" the more you look into the Bible it is more flawed than the Book of Mormon, and just in case you were unaware there are 1000's of valid, logical reasons to question the divinity of Christ, and the very existance of a God any god..

Is that now my cross to bear?(so to speak)- or do I attempt to un-indoctrinate all of these boys I so successfully participated in indoctrinating for years..

I am in this same situation. Two years ago I was very heavily involved with the YM and scouting and then one day walked into the bishops office and droped the bomb that my wife and I don't believe the church is true and that we will no longer be attending. I was close to a lot of the boys and really got to know them over the years. The next Sunday the Bishop announced in YM that I will not be showing up anymore and that I may remove my name from the records of the church.

Two days later I had about 4 boys show up on my porch one evening and I invited them in. After a little chit chat one of them asked me "What was up?". I told him basically that I believed the church was not true and tried to leave it at that. He wanted to get specifics and I knew that if I told these boys anything that might challenged their faith, I would have some mad parents on my hands. He kept pressing me for specifics so I finally grabbed the July 1993 Ensign that I had and asked them how Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. They told me the usually story that we are all taught about the Urim and Thummim. I asked them if they ever heard how Joseph Smith looked into a Hat with a seer stone and then showed them the article right out of the Ensign (I figured this was as safe as I could get of showing them something). They were a little taken back and I said there are a lot of other issues and that I prefer not to talk to them about it.

I see them many times in the neighborhood and I know that many of these YM are getting ready to go on missions. Often times I have wondering if I should just give them a heads up on a few things. If they really want to go, fine, but many times I think they are entitled to know a few things and draw their own conclusions and if they really want to go still, that is fine with me.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Seth...

I personally believe the church should be embraced, or rejected, based on its truth value, and not based on any social considerations or whether "it's working for you" or not.

I totally see your point and half agree. (smile)

If membership/belief in a church or belief system is creating a life that isn't working to the benefit of one's life, and creating problems within a family, overwhelming feelings of stress, self hatred, and any other harmful sorts of situations, even if it is "true" I wonder if it is in the best interest of the believer to remain.

I do not believe any church is true...but EVEN if one or more is/are true, I think it is in the best interest of my personal life, my family, my sense of mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health, to follow what seems holy for me, what helps me live the best life I can.


Does that make sense?

:-)

~dancer~

[_Some Schmo]

Hey Seth,

I'm not sure it's a case of the dude you're talking about leaving for the wrong reasons. I think it's a case of him not having left at all. Being a Mormon isn't about attending church, it's about subjecting yourself to a belief system. If he started smoking and drinking etc and felt Mormon guilt over it, then he never really left in the first place.

Leaving the church is more of a mental and emotional process, not so much a physical one. And I respectfully disagree that you could do such a thing for the wrong reasons. I don't think it matters why you stop believing in Mormonism as long as you do it. It's like a kidnapped child: it doesn't matter that the child wants to escape his/her captor because his house smells funny and he listens to crappy music and not because the child wants to get back to the family or because of less than optimal conditions in which to be raised. All that matters is that the child escapes.

[_wenglund]

By all means, Wade, clarify. You have a very long habit of protesting that others are distorting your comments without then clarifying as to the difference between the distortion and your actual comments.

Actually, my habit of not clarifying such differences is only recent and reserved for a select few, such as yourself, whose closed minds render making such clarifications fruitless.

However, as for the open-minded among us, and those not prone to filtering un-alterably my comments through the lense of religious or LDS stereotyping, will tend not to distort my comments, but in the unlikely event that it does occur, I have been, and still am, more than happy to productively clarify.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Sethbag]

Schmo, yeah, I think I agree with your interpretation, ie: that the guy never really left it if it still had some kind of hold on his mind. And it follows, from that idea, that actually leaving it at all results in it not having a hold on one's mind, and therefore there's not much sense in saying he left it for the "wrong" reason. I think your way of saying it is probably better than mine.

I should probably say he "left church activity for a while" for the wrong reason, ie: that he wanted to sin, and not because he'd released his mind from the church's hold and knew that it wasn't true.

ps: Truth Dancer, thanks for the comments, and I agree, in the end, we're all just trying to do what we feel is best in our lives, and that's all we can really expect of anyone, and that applies to both sides of the Mormon debate.