Juliann & Scott Gordon's "blacklds.org"

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_Mister Scratch
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Juliann & Scott Gordon's "blacklds.org"

Post by _Mister Scratch »

I don't know how many here have had the opportunity to peruse this utter train wreck, but I highly recommend that you take a look:

www.blacklds.org

It contains all sorts of interesting nuggets, such as this statement from "Scotty Dog" Gordon himself:

Scott Gordon wrote:Some have asked why someone who is obviously white would put together this Web site. Encouragement from Renee Olson and Marvin Perkins, along with a feeling that somebody needed to do it, motivated him in this endeavor. He is careful to pay attention to suggestions given to him by his advisors.
(emphasis added)

I find this last bit especially mysterious. Just who, I wonder, are his "advisors"? Is he receiving "audibles," as it were, from the Brethren, or other PR flacks in the COB?

In the section entitled "Testimonies," juliann and Scotty Dog were unwise enough to include this classic:

"I had an opportunity to really delve into and learn in-depth what the Church was all about....So, here I am. It hasn't been an easy process, but I've learned a lot about patience and forgiveness. A lot of people I've encountered insist on telling me this is a racist Church, but I say, 'Hey, there's racism everywhere in the world.


Ouch! Not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it? I would imagine that the owners of this site had to work pretty hard just to dig up enough quotes from Black LDS just to merit having a "Testimonies" section at all. (Of course there is the de rigueur quote from Gladys Knight.) But the above quote, it seems, came delivered in a nice, tidy, pre-fabricated package:

*These three quotes listed above come from the book Why I Believe, Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, Utah (2002) as quoted in the brochure The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Harlem.


How interesting! There are so few quotes from Black members, that they have to stoop to recycling them!!! Unbelievable, and actually kind of appalling that they would do this. Why not just adopt the more honest stance, which is that the Church is still a very, very uncomfortable place for Blacks, hence why so few are members?

Further down on the same page, we get this testimonial from a man named Wain Myers. First, he issues a hearty bash against another church:

When I returned from Germany I started attending True Vine Missionary Baptist Church. Where I preached for the next 6 years. During that period of time I learned how dark the priest craft. I didn’t know then it was priest craft. Things had gotten so dark that I went to church one Sunday and prayed for a change or I would never attend church again. Nothing changed and I never returned to that church again.


It is strange, in my opinion, that juliann and S. Gordon allowed the various typos in these testimonials to stand. Don't they know that the ethics of journalism allow for such corrections? Or did they think that these typos and grammatical errors were "sweet" or "quaint"? Anyhow, Mr. Myers's testimony goes on:

In June of 1995 on a Monday night, I met my wife who I am now sealed to on the city bus I was driving. We saw her every Monday night. One night she was reading her Relief Society Manuel and I asked her what it. When she told me, I thought she was in some kind of Masonic group. She told me she was L.D.S., and I had no idea what she was talking about. Then she said we are referred to as Mormons. I said "no way. There are no black Mormons". She smiled and said, "Well now you have met one". I wanted to know more about this religion that I had no idea that black people were apart of. She told me if I wanted to know more about it she had some friends that would give me all the I wanted. I didn’t understand why she couldn’t tell me.
(emphasis added)

Really, don't juliann and Scott know that they are shooting themselves in the foot with this stuff? A) Boy was he ever insightful in noting the Masonic connection, and B) Yes, why couldn't she tell him? Afraid of "accidentally" spilling the beans about some controversial aspect of Church history? Of course, he continues on in his anecdote to state that he was, in effect, "lured" to a dinner at this woman's house so that the missionaries could delivered a very tightly-controlled spiel about the Church.

Another interesting testimonial comes from Renee Olson, who is one of the founders/operators of the website:

Renee Olson wrote:Through lots of love, patience, understanding and non-judgmental friends I came to see the real "truth" behind the LDS Church. I realized I had been brainwashed before and started doing my own thinking.


Wow. (And yes, the word "truth" has the scare quotes around it in the original quote.) Doesn't anyone at this site know how to edit?

Perhaps the most revealing section of the website is devoted to "testimonials" from mostly white members who recount what they were doing when they heard the news regarding the lifting of the priesthood ban. For example, here is Michael Fordham:

From my reading about the church, I knew that the prophets had always said this day would come, so I thought I had better go back to church and see what was happening. I have been active ever since. Also, this revelation did not affect me personally as I am Caucasian.
(emphasis added)

Here is Kevin Barney:

Over the next few weeks, to my observation, every member of the Church I saw was absolutely thrilled by this development. I personally did not encounter a single negative reaction.


I find it interesting that he felt it was necessary to include this final sentence. A bit further down, Peter Siebach admits that he found the Church's treatment of Blacks "embarrassing":

I remember my father called my sisters and I together and told us that the blacks could now hold the Priesthood. I remember feeling relief that really I had nothing any longer to feel embarrassed about because of my church membership


Next up is Forest Simmons, who actually admits to being a racist prior to the revelation:

Immediately I was filled with a warm feeling throughout my whole body, from head to toes. As I marveled at this experience I felt a life time of racial prejudice being swept out of my heart. Amazingly, I was never aware of being prejudiced until that moment when I felt the prejudice leaving me.


What is intriguing about these testimonials is the various levels of discomfort and uneasiness that they reveal. In virtually every instance, the author expresses either surprise, or embarrassment, or awareness of "prejudice," or else they begin crying. Those who cried almost universally claim that these were "tears of joy," but this seems odd. Consider this quote from Sheri Gordon:

When I got in the car, my mother told me she had just heard on the radio that the church had announced that the blacks would get the priesthood. My mother and I sat in the car and cried. We talked about how the work was going forward. We were really excited for a black man in our ward who was ordained two weeks after the announcement.
(emphasis added)

So, does this therefore mean that they had secretly been resenting the priesthood ban, and had harbored an anti-doctrinal hope that it would be lifted? Does that explain the crying? Or are the tears really symptomatic of something deeper? After, Scott Gordon notes in his own account that:

Scott Gordon wrote:There was back slapping and hugs for those members who were affected.


Doesn't this imply that only certain members were "affected"? (Whatever that means.)

In another section of the site, some numbskull apparently thought it would be a good idea to include this:

The Following quotes came from J. Golden Kimball from the book J. Golden Kimball Stories: Mormonism's Colorful Cowboy copyright 1999 White Horse Books. There are two volumes of the book.

J. Golden Kimball comments on the KKK

"The most difficult thing Golden faced on his second mission was harassment by the Ku Klux Klan. In the years following the Civil War, the Klan was a powerful and intimidating force in the Old south. Along with Jews, Catholics, and African Americans, Mormons were targets for tar and feathering, whipping, and murder."

'Waste of a good sheet,' was Golden's opinion." (from page 31)

"He described to his brother Elias how the Klan dressed. 'They cover themselves in a white sheet and there's a hood for the head with two small openings for their eyes. This hood has a point to it, which is more than could be said for their beliefs.' (From page 97)

"Mormon missionaries were accused by the Klan of seducing the wives and daughters of the White South to be taken back to live in polygamous slavery in Utah. Golden said one only had to look at their wives and daughters to know that such a thing couldn't possibly be true. Even polygamists have standards." (From page 97)


??? How is this relevant in any way, shape, or form to the experiences of Black LDS? Are the owners of this website trying to create the impression that the suffering of Blacks at the hands of the KKK is/was the same as it was for J. Golden Kimball? Do they not realize that this quote only serves to cement the impression Kimball was a hardcore sexist and misogynist? (Unless I'm mistaken, this was the same Kimball who said that he compared marrying a polygamous wife to buying a cow.)

The bottom line is that blacklds.org is a colossal embarrassment and a sham. The misguided intentions of juliann and Scott Gordon really just reveal the dire state that LDS race relations are in. Of course, most of us no doubt hope for an actual, genuine confrontation by Church leadership of Mormonism's racist past, but it's hard to see how drivel such as "blacklds.org" is helping. Instead, the entire website seems like a salve for white LDS guilty. It is a place where members such as juliann, "Scotty Dog," and others can glad-hand and pat each other on the backs, exclaiming about how generous and open-minded they are. What it really underscores is how much more this site is actually for Mormon whites than for Blacks. One can only wonder if juliann & co. have begun to feel better about themselves as a result.
_karl61
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Post by _karl61 »

Has anyone ever seen any white guy in the LDS church with a black wife. I never did in twenty years in Southern California. How about a white woman with a black man. I heard that these couples have been married in the temple which likely caused a small earthquake around Brigham Young's grave. I thought I read a thread where someone mentioned this.
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Re: Juliann & Scott Gordon's "blacklds.org"

Post by _Bond...James Bond »

Mister Scratch wrote:In another section of the site, some numbskull apparently thought it would be a good idea to include this:

The Following quotes came from J. Golden Kimball from the book J. Golden Kimball Stories: Mormonism's Colorful Cowboy copyright 1999 White Horse Books. There are two volumes of the book.

J. Golden Kimball comments on the KKK

"The most difficult thing Golden faced on his second mission was harassment by the Ku Klux Klan. In the years following the Civil War, the Klan was a powerful and intimidating force in the Old south. Along with Jews, Catholics, and African Americans, Mormons were targets for tar and feathering, whipping, and murder."

'Waste of a good sheet,' was Golden's opinion." (from page 31)

"He described to his brother Elias how the Klan dressed. 'They cover themselves in a white sheet and there's a hood for the head with two small openings for their eyes. This hood has a point to it, which is more than could be said for their beliefs.' (From page 97)

"Mormon missionaries were accused by the Klan of seducing the wives and daughters of the White South to be taken back to live in polygamous slavery in Utah. Golden said one only had to look at their wives and daughters to know that such a thing couldn't possibly be true. Even polygamists have standards." (From page 97)


??? How is this relevant in any way, shape, or form to the experiences of Black LDS? Are the owners of this website trying to create the impression that the suffering of Blacks at the hands of the KKK is/was the same as it was for J. Golden Kimball? Do they not realize that this quote only serves to cement the impression Kimball was a hardcore sexist and misogynist? (Unless I'm mistaken, this was the same Kimball who said that he compared marrying a polygamous wife to buying a cow.)


Yeah...so how many Mormons missionaries were lynched in the south by the KKK? Would the Mormons get off their persecution complex already...frankly they look like effing retards by trying to compare their "suffering" to that of African-Americans or Jews.

PS: Welcome back Scratch...haven't seen you in a while.
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by _Zoidberg »

I saw that before and for some reason thought it was actually done by black LDS people. Well, I've learned my lesson and from now on will read the fine print. Of course, when I first saw it, I had no idea what FAIR was. And juliann's involved? Oh my. Some nerve, really. I wonder how many black LDS visit that site and what their reaction is.

And yes, it's rather interesting that this crowd does not hesitate to show they were embarrassed by the ban now that it's been lifted. But when someone expresses discomfort about current issues, they are immediately given a sermon about how they lack faith.

What a joke.
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_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

thestyleguy wrote:Has anyone ever seen any white guy in the LDS church with a black wife. I never did in twenty years in Southern California. How about a white woman with a black man. I heard that these couples have been married in the temple which likely caused a small earthquake around Brigham Young's grave. I thought I read a thread where someone mentioned this.


You are quite right. There is still a "semi-official" policy within the Church (embraced by members such as DCP) that advises against interracial marriage. This is one of many things that demonstrates the vestigial racism which still plagues Mormonism. On a related note, when the ban was lifted, the Church News issued a Brethren-sanctioned statement saying that "Interracial Marriage Strongly Discouraged," or something like that. Incidentally, the doctrinally-based prohibition against interracial marriage has never been rescinded. (One old LDS apologist claimed that interracial marriage would result in "spiritual death"---i.e., that this is one of those rare offenses that can lead you to become a Son of Perdition.) You are right that interracial marriages have been sealed in the temple, but it's unclear how/why these were allowed, given the fact that the old, prohibitive doctrines have never been dealt with, or done away with.
_karl61
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Post by _karl61 »

discourage mixed marriage but only with people that are black, not mexican or native american.

Everyone knows Brigham and Joseph would jump if this lady walked into the room:

Image

Mods: please correct so image appears - I tried.
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Post by _moksha »

I am uncertain their intentions were misguided. Certainly this is an issue that needed to be addressed by the Church, and I suspect as Scott Gordon wrote "that somebody needed to do it". Is this the be all, end all answer to this issue that has plagued the Church for most of its history? No. That time is still to come but until then, I am uncertain how these type of efforts can be faulted.



This is for Thestyleguy:

Image
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by _Runtu »

moksha wrote:I am uncertain their intentions were misguided. Certainly this is an issue that needed to be addressed by the Church, and I suspect as Scott Gordon wrote "that somebody needed to do it". Is this the be all, end all answer to this issue that has plagued the Church for most of its history? No. That time is still to come but until then, I am uncertain how these type of efforts can be faulted.


I think that's the proper approach. Clearly they felt that apologetics ought to be applied to this topic, so they did it. I doubt the motivation was any different than that of any other apologetic effort.

Kind of funny, though, that they had to find canned testimonies.
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_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

Runtu wrote: Kind of funny, though, that they had to find canned testimonies.


Yes, it would have been much more authentic if they could have had someone like GIMR, who could have discussed both the good and the bad when it comes to being black and LDS. I suspect the raw answers would ultimately have suited the best interest of black LDS members, without flecks of PR aaround the edges.
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Post by _Runtu »

moksha wrote:
Runtu wrote: Kind of funny, though, that they had to find canned testimonies.


Yes, it would have been much more authentic if they could have had someone like GIMR, who could have discussed both the good and the bad when it comes to being black and LDS. I suspect the raw answers would ultimately have suited the best interest of black LDS members, without flecks of PR aaround the edges.


Yeah, it's just standard apologetics with a racial twist. Most apologetics does not acknowledge the bad, only the good, and is heavily salted with PR.
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