Are you an eight-cow woman?

[_barrelomonkeys]

I don't have any "in real life" experience with LDS women except my husband's ex. She is pleased to talk about her "mommy" and "household" skills. She sends me pictures of her arts and crafts projects and all her numerous "mommy" things she's doing.

She also forwards me emails mentioning how women who "do the right thing by staying at home with their children" are the best type of moms. Sooo.... could it be that these women relish these roles?

There appears to be quite a bit of competition (I let her win - I don't give a flying fruitfly if her tarts are perfect) between the women and being numero uno in the house hold department.

It's sort of odd. :/

[_beastie]

For me, feminism wasn't about whether or not women should work outside the home. It was about feeling like you had the choice, you could work outside the home without feeling like a bad mother. Or even choosing not to have children at all, or get married. It was about rejecting the "script" that had been carefully, artificially put together for women. (I say artificially because throughout most of human history, mothers have always worked outside the home, like men)

Mormonism is a throw back because it not only embraces the script, but proclaims it God-ordained. Of course stay at home LDS moms "relish" their roles in some way - they've been taught that they're doing the most important job a woman can do. They're taught that others who don't embrace this job in the same way are likely inadequate.

What's strange is that LDS don't seem to see the contradiction in emphasizing that motherhood is the most important job for a woman - in a way it is. But so is fatherhood for a man. And if a man can still be a successful father, taking care of that most important job along with working and church callings, well, then, so can women.

When I was active LDS, we were taught that women should work outside the home only under extraordinary situations, such as widowhood.

[_harmony]

I don't have any "in real life" experience with LDS women except my husband's ex. She is pleased to talk about her "mommy" and "household" skills. She sends me pictures of her arts and crafts projects and all her numerous "mommy" things she's doing.

She also forwards me emails mentioning how women who "do the right thing by staying at home with their children" are the best type of moms. Sooo.... could it be that these women relish these roles?

There appears to be quite a bit of competition (I let her win - I don't give a flying fruitfly if her tarts are perfect) between the women and being numero uno in the house hold department.

It's sort of odd. :/

When you are told repeatedly that working outside the home is sinful, and a woman's crowning glory is her children, and that women who work and have children are overstepping their stewardship (especially women with what is referred to as Professional jobs), if you're trying to be a good LDS woman, you heed the counsel to stay home and try to make the best of it. Until the dullness and boredom eat you alive while you maintain that facade. The only reason to work is if you have to, and then you take a deadend job so you don't bring home more money than your hubby (the poor schmuck is supposed to support you and your kids, so if you make more than he does, he's not gonna feel like he's the King anymore). And if you don't like it, you lump it, because wife and motherhood is the only career option open to you.

[_Yoda]

I mentioned this on another thread, but I always feel very out of place at family gatherings on my husband's side. I'm the only sister in law who works. Two of my sisters in law were nurses, but only worked to put their husbands through school.

Their conversations revolve around babies, crafts, sewing and home decor. It's not that I think these things are unimportant...they just don't interest me to talk about. I love my kids..and will talk about my kids at times...but my kids don't make up my entire identity...and I've never been much of a domestic goddess...LOL

I always end up talking to my husband's brothers about computers, business, marketing....even my taste in movies lines up more with the guys than the girls.

I doubt old Johnny Lingo would consider me an "8 cow woman". He would probably put me out to pasture and run for the hills.....thank God!

LOL

[_Zoidberg]

For me, feminism wasn't about whether or not women should work outside the home. It was about feeling like you had the choice, you could work outside the home without feeling like a bad mother. Or even choosing not to have children at all, or get married. It was about rejecting the "script" that had been carefully, artificially put together for women. (I say artificially because throughout most of human history, mothers have always worked outside the home, like men)

Mormonism is a throw back because it not only embraces the script, but proclaims it God-ordained. Of course stay at home LDS moms "relish" their roles in some way - they've been taught that they're doing the most important job a woman can do. They're taught that others who don't embrace this job in the same way are likely inadequate.

What's strange is that LDS don't seem to see the contradiction in emphasizing that motherhood is the most important job for a woman - in a way it is. But so is fatherhood for a man. And if a man can still be a successful father, taking care of that most important job along with working and church callings, well, then, so can women.

When I was active LDS, we were taught that women should work outside the home only under extraordinary situations, such as widowhood.

I just don't like how the Church tries to pigeonhole everyone into pre-determined categories, to quote the complaint generator (and general consensus has been reached that it has prophetic powers). "Follow the rules first, and then we can talk about exceptions". But it's never the time to talk about exceptions. Men - provide. Women - stay home with the kids. What if a man wants to stay home with the kids? There should be a choice for everyone, not just a giant complacency farm.

Their firm conviction that they know what women want, deserve and have the right to was manifest in the infamous anti-ERA campaign; now they talk about the children's right to straight parents. Except they've forgotten to ask the children, just like they forgot to ask the women before. There are so many children in orphanages or foster care all over the place that want to have a permanent family, whether it be one parent, a mommy and a daddy, two mommies or two daddies. But the Church is so zealous about their right to have two straight parents it would rather they never have any kind of family.

Book of Mormon, looks like you have interesting family dynamics. The whole competition thing on the part of your husband's ex is probably sublimation brought on by complete lack of self-actualization in areas unrelated to the family unit.

[_barrelomonkeys]

For me, feminism wasn't about whether or not women should work outside the home. It was about feeling like you had the choice, you could work outside the home without feeling like a bad mother. Or even choosing not to have children at all, or get married. It was about rejecting the "script" that had been carefully, artificially put together for women. (I say artificially because throughout most of human history, mothers have always worked outside the home, like men)

Mormonism is a throw back because it not only embraces the script, but proclaims it God-ordained. Of course stay at home LDS moms "relish" their roles in some way - they've been taught that they're doing the most important job a woman can do. They're taught that others who don't embrace this job in the same way are likely inadequate.

What's strange is that LDS don't seem to see the contradiction in emphasizing that motherhood is the most important job for a woman - in a way it is. But so is fatherhood for a man. And if a man can still be a successful father, taking care of that most important job along with working and church callings, well, then, so can women.

When I was active LDS, we were taught that women should work outside the home only under extraordinary situations, such as widowhood.

Well that's the was I view feminism too. That we can choose what we wish to do. If staying at home is what we choose we can do so with pride.

I bristle at the working vs. stay at home mother debates. It really loses the focus that we all have the ability to choose our own paths regardless of whether we have children or not.

[_barrelomonkeys]

I don't have any "in real life" experience with LDS women except my husband's ex. She is pleased to talk about her "mommy" and "household" skills. She sends me pictures of her arts and crafts projects and all her numerous "mommy" things she's doing.

She also forwards me emails mentioning how women who "do the right thing by staying at home with their children" are the best type of moms. Sooo.... could it be that these women relish these roles?

There appears to be quite a bit of competition (I let her win - I don't give a flying fruitfly if her tarts are perfect) between the women and being numero uno in the house hold department.

It's sort of odd. :/

When you are told repeatedly that working outside the home is sinful, and a woman's crowning glory is her children, and that women who work and have children are overstepping their stewardship (especially women with what is referred to as Professional jobs), if you're trying to be a good LDS woman, you heed the counsel to stay home and try to make the best of it. Until the dullness and boredom eat you alive while you maintain that facade. The only reason to work is if you have to, and then you take a deadend job so you don't bring home more money than your hubby (the poor schmuck is supposed to support you and your kids, so if you make more than he does, he's not gonna feel like he's the King anymore). And if you don't like it, you lump it, because wife and motherhood is the only career option open to you.

Is it really mentioned in the context of sin? What of these women that divorce? It appears to me that the inability to have the skills to support yourself and your children thwarts women's ability to leave relationships. Could this be part of the motivation?

Strengthen the family (ie make it close to impossible for the woman to leave) by enforcing these roles?

[_beastie]

Is it really mentioned in the context of sin? What of these women that divorce? It appears to me that the inability to have the skills to support yourself and your children thwarts women's ability to leave relationships. Could this be part of the motivation?

Strengthen the family (ie make it close to impossible for the woman to leave) by enforcing these roles?

Remember, divorce is almost taboo in Mormonism. The shame of divorce is very strong. So, yes, if this also discourages divorce by making women economically dependent, all the better.

The LDS church has practically made a cult out of family. It is very difficult for single and/or divorced people to feel truly at home within the LDS paradigm. It's all about marriage and children. Here and in the eternities.

Personally, I doubt that anyone is crafting these teachings in such a way as to deliberately damage women. I think it's more a case that very old, upper middle class men run the church, and are simply expressing their own fifties culture.

Remember, even according to the apologists, culture trumps even the voice of God!

[_Zoidberg]

Is it really mentioned in the context of sin? What of these women that divorce? It appears to me that the inability to have the skills to support yourself and your children thwarts women's ability to leave relationships. Could this be part of the motivation?

Strengthen the family (ie make it close to impossible for the woman to leave) by enforcing these roles?

Remember, divorce is almost taboo in Mormonism. The shame of divorce is very strong. So, yes, if this also discourages divorce by making women economically dependent, all the better.

The LDS church has practically made a cult out of family. It is very difficult for single and/or divorced people to feel truly at home within the LDS paradigm. It's all about marriage and children. Here and in the eternities.

Personally, I doubt that anyone is crafting these teachings in such a way as to deliberately damage women. I think it's more a case that very old, upper middle class men run the church, and are simply expressing their own fifties culture.

Remember, even according to the apologists, culture trumps even the voice of God!

And divorced people can't work for the CES or be bishops (correct me if I'm wrong). Since according to SWK, almost any two good people (unless they are of the same sex, of course) can make a marriage work, those who get divorced must somehow be not good people.

I also can't help being astonished by the Church's reverence for secular marriage. Joseph Smith sure didn't have much respect for it.

[_harmony]

Joseph Smith sure didn't have much respect for it.

The Joseph Smith of the myth revered Emma above all else. The real Joseph Smith was banging her best friends behind her back.

The church makes danged sure the myth is all anyone sees. They keep the real Joseph very carefully hidden.