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What would it take for Joseph Smith to have been a fraud?
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:28 pm
by _Runtu
I've heard over and over that Joseph Smith couldn't have maintained a conscious fraud as long as he did. Someone would have found out. But I was thinking, what exactly would it have taken for the whole thing to have been made up?
1. One poorly written book mixing Biblical beliefs and common folk mythology.
2. One enterprising and charismatic young man.
3. A credulous audience of people who believe in superstition and folk mythology.
What else does it require?
I suppose plates and the seerstone.
Anything else?
Re: What would it take for Joseph Smith to have been a fraud
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:33 pm
by _asbestosman
Runtu wrote:Anything else?
If Uncle Dale is right, then it seems to require Spaulding and maybe a bit of Oliver Cowdery and Sidney Rigdon.
Re: What would it take for Joseph Smith to have been a fraud
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:37 pm
by _Runtu
asbestosman wrote:Runtu wrote:Anything else?
If Uncle Dale is right, then it seems to require Spaulding and maybe a bit of Oliver Cowdery and Sidney Rigdon.
I don't find Uncle Dale's stuff all that convincing. YMMV.
Re: What would it take for Joseph Smith to have been a fraud
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:49 pm
by _asbestosman
Runtu wrote:I don't find Uncle Dale's stuff all that convincing. YMMV.
Well, you might want to add a map with NHM to your list. Perhaps an angel costume too.
Re: What would it take for Joseph Smith to have been a fraud
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:50 pm
by _Runtu
asbestosman wrote:Runtu wrote:I don't find Uncle Dale's stuff all that convincing. YMMV.
Well, you might want to add a map with NHM to your list. Perhaps an angel costume too.
Apparently, maps with "Nehem" were not uncommon in Joseph's day. So, we can scratch that one.
And I don't think an angel costume is necessary.
Re: What would it take for Joseph Smith to have been a fraud
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:32 am
by _Gadianton
Runtu wrote:I've heard over and over that Joseph Smith couldn't have maintained a conscious fraud as long as he did. Someone would have found out. But I was thinking, what exactly would it have taken for the whole thing to have been made up?
1. One poorly written book mixing Biblical beliefs and common folk mythology.
2. One enterprising and charismatic young man.
3. A credulous audience of people who believe in superstition and folk mythology.
What else does it require?
I suppose plates and the seerstone.
Anything else?
I'd substitute "magic" for "mythology", but at any rate, L. Ron Hubbard published Dianetics in 1950 and died in 1986. He built the scam for 36 years. As Smith started with the Book of Mormon and slowly built up the elaborate stuff, so Hubbard's founding book only ad hoc fits in the universe he created.
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:36 am
by _Jersey Girl
I can think of at least a small list of things it would have taken for Joseph Smith to have been a fraud. Just off the top of my head...
1. A seer stone
2. The ability to persuade
3. People who were easily persuaded
4. A Bible and other literature from which to build on
5. Egyptian papyri that no one else could read
6. And a little help from his friends
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:46 am
by _beastie
I say before this thread continues, you must give us proof that you can't find buried treasure from looking into a hat.
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:51 am
by _Jersey Girl
beastie wrote:I say before this thread continues, you must give us proof that you can't find buried treasure from looking into a hat.
You must show me how to prove a negative!
:-P
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:54 am
by _beastie
You must show me how to prove a negative!
You're just avoiding the issue!!!
(ps, sorry for the derailment, I couldn't resist, having just read Hammer's delightful comment, it has become the epitome of MAD to me)