Proof that you can't see buried treasures in hats???

[_beastie]

I don't see any problem conceding the possibility that Joseph Smith used a seer stone to look for buried treasure. I'm not sure he ever admitted to it, but others certainly thought he did it. Josiah Stowel's nephew for one.

The problem isn't admitting he used one - only a person completely ignorant of the facts would do that.

The problem is whether or not you believe that Joseph Smith could actually see buried treasures through the stone. This is an essential point because the mechanism he used to see buried treasures was the exact same mechanism he used to translate the Book of Mormon.

Will recognized this point on the thread in question:

I’m not embarrassed or ashamed to acknowledge the fact that I believe Joseph Smith could find treasures in the ground. I believe the witnesses who claimed to see him do it. I believe in lots of things that defy scientific explanation in the 21st century. And I don’t think I’m less capable of rational thought in any other respect simply for holding out for inexplicable possibilities in extra-natural realms. I can believe in what is demonstrable in the natural world and believe that there are things just as real that occur on a supernatural plane.

and also:

I would say that if Joseph Smith could not really see buried treasures by means of the seer stone, then he could not see other things via that same means at a later date. I thought my previous post effectively admitted that.

I do not subscribe to the notion that he deceived in the case of the treasure seeking business and yet told the truth later on when it came to the translation business. Nor do I believe he was insane during the treasure seeking period, but "got better" just in time to become a prophet.

I clearly recognize the point you're attempting to make here. I readily admit that any believer in Joseph Smith has got to come to grips with the reality of the treasure-seeking business and its inevitable relationship to the obtaining of and translation of the gold plates.

How about you, Bob? Do you believe Joseph Smith could really see "slippery treasures" via his stone in a hat?

[_Blixa]

Bob, commenting on or criticizing a bit of written text on an online forum is hardly "trash[ing] the reputation of a living person.

Compare these two sentences:

"DCP's statements seem aimed at distortion and obfuscation, rather than clarification and honesty.''

"Jonathan Safran Foer/Salman Rushdie/Nick Hornby/E. L. Doctorow/Anne Rice's statements seem aimed at distortion and obsfucation, rather than clarification and honesty."

Both sentences are the same thing: part of an on going discussion of the written texts of a living person. They happen all the time on message boards both academic and general. Anonymously, too.

Get over it.