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Proof that you can't see buried treasures in hats???
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:03 am
by _beastie
I'm enamored with some posts on a MAD thread:
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 818&st=160
First, Hammer lays down the gauntlet:
You must give us proof that you can't find buried treasure from looking into a hat. In fact, I could if it were expedient that I do so, or are you denying that all things are possible through the Lord Jesus Christ?
DCP continues:
There were lots and lots of money diggers in Joseph Smith's environment. It was a rather common practice in the culture of the day. Does Jaybear really wish to argue that they were all either liars or insane? Can he provide evidence to sustain such a charge? Much has been written about the culture of money-digging. Do scholars who have written on the topic share Jaybear's simplistic judgment on the topic?
My simple question: are these people insane?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:12 am
by _beastie
And, for Who Knows -
THIS is when beliefs become ridiculous.
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:33 am
by _Pokatator
Sorry to be an echo. I just mentioned on the other thread about Hammer's beauty of a comment that I would like to introduce him to James Randi. Go to YouTube and search his work, he debunks the scientologists, the fortune tellers, the dowsers, all sort of hoaxes, like Uri Geller and the likes. He would have had a field day with Joseph Smith if they had been born in the same time frame.
Thanx for your posts.
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:49 am
by _SatanWasSetUp
As usual, it is up to the critics to disprove a rediculous claim. You know what, I can crap gold nuggets. Now prove I can't. by the way, I am not required to show anyone these gold nuggets, but I do have a signed statement from my business partners, friends, and family members that says they saw the gold nuggets. You have 60 days to prove I can't crap gold nuggets. Now get started.
Re: Proof that you can't see buried treasures in hats???
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:49 am
by _Jersey Girl
beastie wrote:I'm enamored with some posts on a MAD thread:
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 818&st=160First, Hammer lays down the gauntlet:
You must give us proof that you can't find buried treasure from looking into a hat. In fact, I could if it were expedient that I do so, or are you denying that all things are possible through the Lord Jesus Christ?
DCP continues:
There were lots and lots of money diggers in Joseph Smith's environment. It was a rather common practice in the culture of the day. Does Jaybear really wish to argue that they were all either liars or insane? Can he provide evidence to sustain such a charge? Much has been written about the culture of money-digging. Do scholars who have written on the topic share Jaybear's simplistic judgment on the topic?
My simple question: are these people insane?
Okay...okay...I don't know if this was intended for serious treatment or not. I'll give it a go...
1. Hammers demand is for proof of a negative. I suppose you could prove that the hat method fails were you to conduct a series of experiments.
2. DCP's remarks are ...well, I can't think of an appropriate descritpor. Is he attempting to forward the concept money digging as a valid practice? My Magic 8 Ball says..."Try again".
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:57 am
by _The Dude
They will defend the hat-trick even if you compare it to a metal detector and ask which is better. I mean, look at all those silly US servicemen searching for mines and WMDs with 21st century metal detectors, while they have perfectly good hats just
sitting there on top of their heads.
What a fool!
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:02 am
by _Blixa
I guess y'all missed Her Amun's thread comparing Joseph Smith to migrant workers (um, because they most resemble Joseph Smith's "situation" as a youth, you know uneducated and doing back breaking manual labor round the clock).
Its filled with gen-U-ine He-Lar-i-tee like Her Amun's warning, "I'm Puerto Rican on both sides, so don't even tiry to play the race card with me. I'm brown and I'm down!" (Uh, fine, you pretty much threw those cards all over the table yourself) and DCP chiming in with a defense of how you can judge people's abilities and potential from photographs of them (...must keep...self...from playing...donut card....).
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:06 am
by _beastie
I've read some more on the thread, and it appears both Hammer and DCP meant their comments seriously. DCP clarified on a later post:
Jaybear:
Tell me Dan, do you think Joseph Smith could see buried treasure by looking at rock in his hat?
DCP:
Some of those who knew him well testified in court, under oath, that he could indeed find things by miraculous means. He and his father seem in fact to have genuinely believed that he had a gift. Rather like the prophet Samuel in the Old Testament, I suppose.
Jaybear:
Was the rock magic? Surely it must have been the rock,
DCP:
First of all, I don't -- for reasons that I've published -- use the term magic. Second, the power was not simplistically in the rock, since there are also stories about Joseph being unable to function because he needed to apologize to Emma for a slight. Thus, clearly, his own mental or spiritual state was relevant.
in my opinion - if you're a believing Mormon, you really do have to accept that Joseph Smith saw buried treasures in a rock in a hat to be consistent. It's just rare to see them admit it.
Because, of course, they look ridiculous doing so. Seeing buried treasures in a hat is no longer cloaked enough in "RELIGION" to turn off the "ridiculous" reaction.
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:20 am
by _beastie
Oh, lordie, this thread is great and reminds me of why I still visit MAD now and then.
Will is now saying that Jaybear inappropriately used the term "plagiarized" for Joseph Smith including the Isaiah passages in the Book of Mormon:
Jaybear: defining plagiarized as requested:
Placing any portion of the text of KJV translation of Isiah in the Book of Mormon, while purporting that the Book of Mormon's was an original translation of Isiah from ancient plates.
Will:
The dictionary definition of "plagiarize":
QUOTE
to steal and pass off the ideas or words of another as one's own
Mmmm .........
Does anyone else see a problem here?
Why, yes, Will, I see a problem. (must...not...mock....)
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:22 am
by _beastie
They will defend the hat-trick even if you compare it to a metal detector and ask which is better. I mean, look at all those silly US servicemen searching for mines and WMDs with 21st century metal detectors, while they have perfectly good hats just sitting there on top of their heads.
LOL! So this actually occurred on a thread? The comparison between a metal detector and the hat trick??? My god, I must read MAD more often. I am missing mass amounts of entertainment in life.
I guess y'all missed Her Amun's thread comparing Joseph Smith to migrant workers (um, because they most resemble Joseph Smith's "situation" as a youth, you know uneducated and doing back breaking manual labor round the clock).
Its filled with gen-U-ine He-Lar-I-tee like Her Amun's warning, "I'm Puerto Rican on both sides, so don't even tiry to play the race card with me. I'm brown and I'm down!" (Uh, fine, you pretty much threw those cards all over the table yourself) and DCP chiming in with a defense of how you can judge people's abilities and potential from photographs of them (...must keep...self...from playing...donut card....).
Ah, so you're the one who subliminally made me say must...not... mock... You're such a bad influence.
Her Amun is always entertaining.
Shoot, if only I didn't have to work tomorrow. I want to stay up finishing the thread, but alas, it shall have to wait.