MAD Discussion - Angel Moroni - Declaration Of Independence

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_richardMdBorn
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MAD Discussion - Angel Moroni - Declaration Of Independence

Post by _richardMdBorn »

Angel Moroni - Declaration Of Independence, The unknown man who swayed the founding fathers

In the following thread on MAD, what is the problem with the quote which has not been mentioned in the thread as far as I can find. Does anyone there know anything about American history?

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=28590

I heard in Church that the Angel Moroni witnessed the signing of the Declaration of Independence. I have never found an LDS source confirming this. The only thing close I have ever come across relating to this was from the book The Secret Destiny of America by Manly P. Hall.
Faced with the death penalty for high treason, courageous men debated long before they picked up the quill pen to sign the parchment that declared the independence of the colonies from the mother country on July 4, 1776. For many hours they had debated in the State House at Philadelphia, with the lower chamber doors locked and a guard posted.

According to Jefferson, it was late in the afternoon before the delegates gathered their courage to the sticking point. The talk was about axes, scaffolds, and the gibbet, when suddenly a strong, bold voice sounded--"Gibbet! They may stretch our necks on all the gibbets in the land; they may turn every rock into a scaffold; every tree into a gallows; every home into a grave, and yet the words of that parchment can never die! They may pour our blood on a thousand scaffolds, and yet from every drop that dies the axe a new champion of freedom will spring into birth! The British King may blot out the stars of God from the sky, but he cannot blot out His words written on that parchment there. The works of God may perish; His words, never!

"The words of this declaration will live in the world long after our bones are dust. To the mechanic in his workshop they will speak hope: to the slave in the mines freedom: but to the coward kings, these words will speak in tones of warning they cannot choose but hear.

"Sign that parchment! Sign, if the next moment the gibbet's rope is about your neck! Sign, if the next minute this hall rings with the clash of falling axes! Sign, by all of your hopes in life or death, as men, as husbands, as fathers, brothers, sign your names to the parchment, or be accursed forever! Sign, and not only for yourselves, but for all ages, for that parchment will be the textbook of freedom, the Bible of the rights of man forever.

"Nay, do not start and whisper with surprise! It is truth, your own hearts witness it: God proclaims it. Look at this strange band of exiles and outcasts, suddenly transformed into a people; a handful of men, weak in arms, but mighty in God-like faith; nay, look at your recent achievements, your Bunker Hill, you Lexington, and then tell me, if you can, that God has not given America to be free!

"It is not give to our poor human intellect to climb to the skies and to pierce the Council of the Almighty One. But methinks I stand among the awful clouds which veils the brightness of Jehovah's throne.

"Methinks I see the recording Angel come trembling up to the throne and speak his dread message. 'Father, the old world is baptized in blood. Father, look with one glance of Thine eternal eye, and behold evermore that terrible sight, man trodden beneath the oppressor's feet, nations lost in blood, murder, and superstition, walking hand in hand over the graves of the victims, and not a single voice of hope to man!'

"He stands there, the Angel, trembling with the record of human guilt, But hark! The voice of God speaks from the awful cloud: 'Let there be Light again! Tell my people, the poor and oppressed, to go out from the old world, from oppression and blood, and build my alter in the new.'

"As I live, my friends, I believe that to be his voice! Yes, were my soul trembling on the verge of eternity, were this hand freezing in death, were this voice choking in the last struggle, I would still, with the last impulse of that soul, with the last wave of that hand, with the last gasp of that voice, implore you to remember this truth--God has given America to be free!

"Yes, as I sank into the gloomy shadows of the grave, with my last faint whisper I would beg you to sign that parchment for the sake of those millions whose very breath is now hushed in intense expactation as they look up to you for the awful words: 'You are free.'"

The unknown speaker fell exhausted into his seat. The delegates, carried away by his enthusiasm, rushed forward. John Hancock scarcely had time to pen his bold signature before the quill was grasped by another. It was done.

The delegates turned to express their gratitude to the unknown speaker for his elequent words. He was not there.

Who was this strange man, who seemed to speak with a divine authority, whose solemn words gave courage to the doubters and sealed the destiny of the new nation?

His name is not recorded; none of those present knew him; or if they did they did, not one acknowledged the acquaintance.

How he had entered into the locked and guarded room is not told, nor is there any record of the manner of his departure.
_cksalmon
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Curious, too.

Post by _cksalmon »

I found the premise of the thread so ridiculous, I haven't bothered to keep up with it.

"I saw a man helping an elderly lady change her tire today. Could it have been Moroni?"
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

Sometimes faith promoting speculation may just be the result of putting a fanciful day dream to print.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_richardMdBorn
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Re: Curious, too.

Post by _richardMdBorn »

cksalmon wrote:I found the premise of the thread so ridiculous, I haven't bothered to keep up with it.

"I saw a man helping an elderly lady change her tire today. Could it have been Moroni?"
I agree that it's painful reading.
_richardMdBorn
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Post by _richardMdBorn »

Note the slight problem with the story that the Declaration of Independence was NOT signed on July 4th.
_Blixa
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Re: MAD Discussion - Angel Moroni - Declaration Of Independe

Post by _Blixa »

richardMdBorn wrote: Does anyone there know anything about American history?


The simplest and best answer is "no."
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Mercury
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Re: Curious, too.

Post by _Mercury »

cksalmon wrote:I found the premise of the thread so ridiculous, I haven't bothered to keep up with it.

"I saw a man helping an elderly lady change her tire today. Could it have been Moroni?"


It was larry from the three nephites. Moe and curly were behind the bushes trying to poke each others eyes out.

Nyuknyuknyuk
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_richardMdBorn
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Post by _richardMdBorn »

The Declaration was signed by most of the delegates on August 2, 1776 (a few signed it later). It was ADOPTED on July 4. So what was the Angel Moroni doing on July 4th? Did he get August 2nd confused with July 4th?
_SatanWasSetUp
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Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

There were some translation errors. Here is the actual restored quote from Moroni.

"1. And it came to pass that the words of this declaration will live in the world long after our bones are dust. To the mechanic in his workshop they will speak hope: to the slave in the mines freedom: but to the coward kings, these words will speak in tones of warning they cannot choose but hear.

"2. And it came to pass that ye must sign that parchment, if ye want your skin to turn white and delightsome! Sign, if the next moment the gibbet's rope is about your neck! Sign, if the next minute this hall rings with the clash of falling axes! Sign, by all of your hopes in life or death, as men, as husbands, as fathers, brothers, sign your names to the parchment, or be accursed forever! Sign, and not only for yourselves, but for all ages, for that parchment will be the textbook of freedom, the Bible of the rights of man forever.

"3. And it came to pass that nay, do not start and whisper with surprise! It is truth, your own hearts witness it: God proclaims it. Look at this strange band of exiles and outcasts, suddenly transformed into a people; a handful of men, weak in arms, but mighty in God-like faith; nay, look at your recent achievements, your Bunker Hill, you Lexington, and then tell me, if you can, that God has not given America to be free!

"4. And it came to pass that it is not give to our poor human intellect to climb to the skies and to pierce the Council of the Almighty One. But methinks I stand among the awful clouds which veils the brightness of Jehovah's throne.

"5. And it came to pass that methinks I see the recording Angel come trembling up to the throne and speak his dread message. 'Father, the old world is baptized in blood. Father, look with one glance of Thine eternal eye, and behold evermore that terrible sight, man trodden beneath the oppressor's feet, nations lost in blood, murder, and superstition, walking hand in hand over the graves of the victims, and not a single voice of hope to man!'

"6. And it came to pass that he stands there, the Angel, trembling with the record of human guilt, But hark! The voice of God speaks from the awful cloud: 'Let there be Light again! Tell my people, the poor and oppressed, to go out from the old world, from oppression and blood, and build my alter in the new.'

"7. And it came to pass that as I live, my friends, I believe that to be his voice! Yes, were my soul trembling on the verge of eternity, were this hand freezing in death, were this voice choking in the last struggle, I would still, with the last impulse of that soul, with the last wave of that hand, with the last gasp of that voice, implore you to remember this truth--God has given America to be free!

"8. And it came to pass that yes, as I sank into the gloomy shadows of the grave, with my last faint whisper I would beg you to sign that parchment for the sake of those millions whose very breath is now hushed in intense expactation as they look up to you for the awful words: 'You are free.'

"9. Wherefor, I bid ye, adieu."
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley

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_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

richardMdBorn wrote:The Declaration was signed by most of the delegates on August 2, 1776 (a few signed it later). It was ADOPTED on July 4. So what was the Angel Moroni doing on July 4th? Did he get August 2nd confused with July 4th?


Yes I think that is the only reasonable explanation. Moroni became a bit confuzzled.

That explains it!
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