Did Joseph Smith marry for love?

[_Runtu]

Yeah, I know this thread has the potential to go south in a hurry, but I was thinking about apologetic explanations for Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy. We are told that he really didn't want to do it, but was commanded of God. Some of his wives went so far as to say that he resisted so stubbornly that God had to send an angel with a drawn sword to threaten him with destruction if he didn't enter into polygamy. The practice was instituted to raise up a righteous generation; it was not about Joseph's desires.

But I was reading about his alleged marriage to Fanny Alger, who is considered the first of his plural wives. The only testimony we have of said marriage is Mosiah Hancock's relating of what his father, Levi, told him. Joseph told him he wanted Fanny, "For I love Fanny." Nothing was said about angels or commandments. He simply said he loved her and wanted her for his wife. Fanny's parents agreed to the request (communicated by Levi) because they believed that the prophet would not have asked for anything wrong.

So, what I'm wondering is, if Joseph was at all reluctant or motivated by commandment or the threat of destruction, he doesn't seem to have communicated it to anyone. Why does everyone insist that Joseph married for every reason except the obvious one?

[_Rollo Tomasi]

But I was reading about his alleged marriage to Fanny Alger, who is considered the first of his plural wives. The only testimony we have of said marriage is Mosiah Hancock's relating of what his father, Levi, told him. Joseph told him he wanted Fanny, "For I love Fanny." Nothing was said about angels or commandments. He simply said he loved her and wanted her for his wife. Fanny's parents agreed to the request (communicated by Levi) because they believed that the prophet would not have asked for anything wrong.

So, what I'm wondering is, if Joseph was at all reluctant or motivated by commandment or the threat of destruction, he doesn't seem to have communicated it to anyone. Why does everyone insist that Joseph married for every reason except the obvious one?

Fanny was unique in that the marriage preceded the sealing powers being restored to Joseph in the Kirtland Temple (so it couldn't have been a sealing, as the other marriages have been described). Also, as you point out, Joseph had not yet started using 'the angel with a drawn sword' guilt-trip to convince women to marry him. Maybe it all did just start with simple love.

[_Trinity]

The practice was instituted to raise up a righteous generation; it was not about Joseph's desires.

How do you separate those two? I believe Joseph really bought into the idea that the more posterity he had, the more POWER and glory he had. Those were his desires. That those desires seem so complementary to sexual desires was just icing on the cake.

[_Runtu]

The practice was instituted to raise up a righteous generation; it was not about Joseph's desires.

How do you separate those two? I believe Joseph really bought into the idea that the more posterity he had, the more POWER and glory he had. Those were his desires. That those desires seem so complementary to sexual desires was just icing on the cake.

I don't think you can separate the two, but apologists certainly try.

[_Runtu]

Fanny was unique in that the marriage preceded the sealing powers being restored to Joseph in the Kirtland Temple (so it couldn't have been a sealing, as the other marriages have been described). Also, as you point out, Joseph had not yet started using 'the angel with a drawn sword' guilt-trip to convince women to marry him. Maybe it all did just start with simple love.

That is odd, isn't it? If polygamy was tied to the sealing power and was part of the restoration of all things, why did Joseph enter into this relationship before the restoration of the sealing power and thus the authority to enter into such a union?

Puzzling indeed.

[_Trinity]

Fanny was unique in that the marriage preceded the sealing powers being restored to Joseph in the Kirtland Temple (so it couldn't have been a sealing, as the other marriages have been described). Also, as you point out, Joseph had not yet started using 'the angel with a drawn sword' guilt-trip to convince women to marry him. Maybe it all did just start with simple love.

That is odd, isn't it? If polygamy was tied to the sealing power and was part of the restoration of all things, why did Joseph enter into this relationship before the restoration of the sealing power and thus the authority to enter into such a union?

Puzzling indeed.

Because he was extra special and God smiled upon him, he was able to commit adultery and have millions after him call it a divine act.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Runtu...

So, what I'm wondering is, if Joseph was at all reluctant or motivated by commandment or the threat of destruction, he doesn't seem to have communicated it to anyone. Why does everyone insist that Joseph married for every reason except the obvious one?

I'm sorry... I'm not sure what the "obvious" one is to you.

I think it is quite obvious Joseph Smith wanted women, and lots of them.. most likely due to a combination of lust, power, ego stuff!

Lets be real... a married thirty something man wants a sixteen year old, and anyone thinks it has anything to do with love? Ummm NO.

I wonder Joseph Smith even he knew what it meant to really love someone.

He wrote Emma some nice love letters but he clearly treated her in ways completely in opposition to a man who loves his wife... lying, cheating, deceiving, screwing household help, sneaking off behind her back, affair after affair.

I see no real evidence whatsoever that Joseph Smith loved any of the women he used... including his wife Emma.

Love is more than flowery words.

~dancer~

[_wenglund]

Yeah, I know this thread has the potential to go south in a hurry, but I was thinking about apologetic explanations for Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy. We are told that he really didn't want to do it, but was commanded of God. Some of his wives went so far as to say that he resisted so stubbornly that God had to send an angel with a drawn sword to threaten him with destruction if he didn't enter into polygamy. The practice was instituted to raise up a righteous generation; it was not about Joseph's desires.

But I was reading about his alleged marriage to Fanny Alger, who is considered the first of his plural wives. The only testimony we have of said marriage is Mosiah Hancock's relating of what his father, Levi, told him. Joseph told him he wanted Fanny, "For I love Fanny." Nothing was said about angels or commandments. He simply said he loved her and wanted her for his wife. Fanny's parents agreed to the request (communicated by Levi) because they believed that the prophet would not have asked for anything wrong.

So, what I'm wondering is, if Joseph was at all reluctant or motivated by commandment or the threat of destruction, he doesn't seem to have communicated it to anyone. Why does everyone insist that Joseph married for every reason except the obvious one?

I am wondering if one need suppose a single reason for the sealings/marriage, or even suppose there might not be multiple reasons that may have been conflicting?

I don't know about others of you, but when I seriously contemplated marrying my long-term girlfriend at the time, there were a variety of reasons that I considered for doing so, and some of those reasons were quite conflicting--on the one hand I was considerably reluctant to marry because I felt financially inadequate and unsure about certain compatibility issues, but on the other hand I felt motivated out of deep love and a desire to be with her and her two boys forever, and also compelled to some degree by divine commandment and inherent healthy desires to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.

But, maybe I am unusual in that way.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_cksalmon]

Yeah, I know this thread has the potential to go south in a hurry, but I was thinking about apologetic explanations for Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy. We are told that he really didn't want to do it, but was commanded of God. Some of his wives went so far as to say that he resisted so stubbornly that God had to send an angel with a drawn sword to threaten him with destruction if he didn't enter into polygamy. The practice was instituted to raise up a righteous generation; it was not about Joseph's desires.

But I was reading about his alleged marriage to Fanny Alger, who is considered the first of his plural wives. The only testimony we have of said marriage is Mosiah Hancock's relating of what his father, Levi, told him. Joseph told him he wanted Fanny, "For I love Fanny." Nothing was said about angels or commandments. He simply said he loved her and wanted her for his wife. Fanny's parents agreed to the request (communicated by Levi) because they believed that the prophet would not have asked for anything wrong.

So, what I'm wondering is, if Joseph was at all reluctant or motivated by commandment or the threat of destruction, he doesn't seem to have communicated it to anyone. Why does everyone insist that Joseph married for every reason except the obvious one?

I am wondering if one need suppose a single reason for the sealings/marriage, or even suppose there might not be multiple reasons that may have been conflicting?

I don't know about others of you, but when I seriously contemplated marrying my long-term girlfriend at the time, there were a variety of reasons that I considered for doing so, and some of those reasons were quite conflicting--on the one hand I was considerably reluctant to marry because I felt financially inadequate and unsure about certain compatibility issues, but on the other hand I felt motivated out of deep love and a desire to be with her and her two boys forever, and also compelled to some degree by divine commandment and inherent healthy desires to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.

But, maybe I am unusual in that way.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Did you ever considering not marrying your long-time girlfriend because, I dunno, she was already married to another man?

If not, then your experience is manifestly not relevant to the question at hand.

Joseph Smith serially married unwed women and married women, following his first legally-recognized marriage to Emma.

Sure, there may have been lots of reasons Joseph Smith contemplated for not polygamously marrying both unmarried and married women, after Emma. But among the least of which reasons was compatibility issues. I'd venture. Or, was Joseph Smith thinking, "Man, I really want to illegally marry this minor and have sex with her, but, Jiminy-Christmas, what about the compatibility issues!?! I mean, is Emma gonna be cool with my sexually gratifying another wife? I've gotta mull this over."

"No, it's cool. God told me to do it--and she's going to be damned if she doesn't go along."

Marry another 32 women and then post about possible reasons for not marrying # 2.

CKS

[_barrelomonkeys]

I mean, is Emma gonna be cool with my sexually gratifying another wife? I've gotta mull this over."

Hahahahaahahaaahaa


My apologies... just the thought of Joseph Smith being concerned about the women's sexual gratification gave me the giggles something bad!