DiscussMormonism.com

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/07/jeffs/index.html

The article talks about Warren Jeffs having tried to hang himself, of his disavowing his prophet status to his brother, of his telling some followers of his immorality with a "sister and daughter" when he was younger, etc.

And then at the bottom of the article you have the last two sentences:

"He is a perfectly priestly man," said a woman who identified herself as Cathy. "He is a man of God, and we will always love him. Once a prophet, always a prophet."

Her husband, Patrick, told CNN, "It's hogwash. I don't believe it ... I will always consider him my prophet."

Total denial, and a reaffirmation of their belief that he was a holy man of God and a true Prophet. This just screams out for a direct comparison with the followers of Joseph Smith, who even with damning evidence of clearly immoral and ungodly things that he did, just sweep it all aside with their faith and proclaim that he was a holy man of God and a true Prophet.

To an LDS out there reading this, please ask yourself, honestly and sincerely, what exactly is the difference between LDS who sweep aside the messy facts of Joseph Smith and the FLDS who sweep aside the messy facts of Warren Jeffs? And how do you, the believing LDS who "knows" that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet despite the evidence of his ungodly behavior, tell the difference between what you do to maintain your belief and what the FLDS do? Where is the critical difference here? Do you not know that the FLDS have the testimony of the Holy Ghost that Warren Jeffs is really the true Prophet on Earth, just like you believe the Holy Ghost confirms Joseph Smith as God's Prophet to you?

It is these kinds of things that I think could be so powerful in helping people step out of the virtual reality of strong but ultimately false faith, and see their position a little more objectively. There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two situations, and an honest and introspective person, critically examining their own faith and the reasons behind it, should not fail to see that. It should trouble you if you consider these two situations and cannot objectively explain how the situations aren't directly parallel to each other. This is your rational mind screaming out to you that there's something wrong, that there's something you're papering over that hinders you from being objective about your religion.

Seth,

That's exactly why I left the church. I finally admitted that I was doing the same thing those people were. "It's all good because he's a prophet of God." You find out you can rationalize a lot of horrible stuff, and when it finally hits you, you're shocked and ashamed of what you have done.

Sethbag wrote:To an LDS out there reading this, please ask yourself, honestly and sincerely, what exactly is the difference between LDS who sweep aside the messy facts of Joseph Smith and the FLDS who sweep aside the messy facts of Warren Jeffs? And how do you, the believing LDS who "knows" that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet despite the evidence of his ungodly behavior, tell the difference between what you do to maintain your belief and what the FLDS do? Where is the critical difference here? Do you not know that the FLDS have the testimony of the Holy Ghost that Warren Jeffs is really the true Prophet on Earth, just like you believe the Holy Ghost confirms Joseph Smith as God's Prophet to you?

Sethbag, didn't you read anything that Enuma Elish a.k.a. David Bokovoy has taught us? Clearly the good people in the FLDS Church simply incorporated these new facts and shifted their paradigm accordingly to accommodate the truthfulness of their church.

I wish David Bokovoy were participating here. I'd love to hear his comments in this thread.

David, if you're out there, please explain to us why believing and faithful FLDS shouldn't just find this a good opportunity to re-examine their Prophet paradigm and realize that their expectations of what a Prophet is, and what kind of behavior God can tolerate from his Prophet, were too high, and find a new paradigm that takes into consideration Jeffs' behavior and statements and still allows him to be a Prophet? David, are you out there?

I am absolutely certain that no Latterday Saint is going to view these two men, placed side by side, as cut from the same cloth. In the first place, the church has gone to ridiculous lengths to make sure no one knows about depths of Joseph's proclivities. For every Ensign article or conference talk about his plural marriages (1 or 2) or his treasure hunting (1 maybe) or his cheating both his wife and his followers (0 from what I can find), there are hundreds about him restoring the gospel, visiting with angels and resurrected men, and receiving revelations from God. And secondly, the whole personality cult thing gets in the way. It's much easier to deal with prophets if one's prophet is a frail old man who is always polite and kindly, and the other guy is young and homely and has 30 women at his beck and call.

All this so called "evidence" against Jeffs should not shake the faith of someone who has received a spiritual witness of his calling as prophet.

SatanWasSetUp wrote:All this so called "evidence" against Jeffs should not shake the faith of someone who has received a spiritual witness of his calling as prophet.

That statement, which I've heard so often, saddens me deeply.

Yes, as long as there is duality in the world -- good and evil -- the likes of you are going to analogize the works of evil to the works of good to discredit the latter.

rcrocket wrote:Yes, as long as there is duality in the world -- good and evil -- the likes of you are going to analogize the works of evil to the works of good to discredit the latter.

You see nothing analogous between Smith and Jeffs? Nothing?

I think my point is obvious.