Adamic/KEP logical connection
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:58 am
I couldn't fit the title I originally had in mind into the title bar, so that's what we get.
Here's what I was thinking about the other day. Various apologists have suggested that it's absurd that Joseph Smith would have suggested, as in the KEP, that one symbol in Egyptian could expand out into whole complex concepts, sentences, etc.
We have a counter-example, actually, and I thought I'd discuss it.
Probably every one of us, including the nevermos, are familiar with the three-syllable invocation to God that was practiced in the LDS temple endowment, during the prayer circle, until 1990, when the "translated" version, in English, was substituted in.
Please, people, I would ask that nobody actually type out the three syllables in this thread, which I would like to have stay in the Terrestrial Kingdom. I hereby express to the mods my permission for them to break out any post by anyone in this thread that includes the three words, into a separate thread in the Telestial Kingdom. I don't want this thread being moved over there, if at all possible.
Back to the subject at hand. In the pre-1990 endowment, which I and many others here experienced firsthand, we would raise our arms and utter three syllables, as if they were three separate one-syllable words (since we didn't see it written down, I suppose there's no way we could be certain they were intended to be three words, rather than some other combination of three syllables). We were instructed that these three syllables translated into English expanded out into 8 words, which I would likewise ask people not to type out.
I trust we all know what I'm talking about. My point is that in the temple endowment itself we see a good example of a very simple and short utterance being taken to mean a significantly more complex expression in English.
Detractors may well respond that an expansion from 3 syllables to 8 words (actually, 8 syllables too) is much smaller-scale than the expansion in the KEP. I would reply that yes, this is true, but that the KEP describes various degrees, of various lengths. An expansion of the 1st degree would be fairly short, while the 2nd degree would be longer, and so forth, up till we had the 5th degree coming in at a freaking paragraph.
How do we know Joseph Smith didn't envision something similar between Adamic and English that the KEP proposes for Egyptian to English? The concept is similar, although perhaps this temple utterance might only count as 2nd degree, or something like that.
What do you guys think?
Here's what I was thinking about the other day. Various apologists have suggested that it's absurd that Joseph Smith would have suggested, as in the KEP, that one symbol in Egyptian could expand out into whole complex concepts, sentences, etc.
We have a counter-example, actually, and I thought I'd discuss it.
Probably every one of us, including the nevermos, are familiar with the three-syllable invocation to God that was practiced in the LDS temple endowment, during the prayer circle, until 1990, when the "translated" version, in English, was substituted in.
Please, people, I would ask that nobody actually type out the three syllables in this thread, which I would like to have stay in the Terrestrial Kingdom. I hereby express to the mods my permission for them to break out any post by anyone in this thread that includes the three words, into a separate thread in the Telestial Kingdom. I don't want this thread being moved over there, if at all possible.
Back to the subject at hand. In the pre-1990 endowment, which I and many others here experienced firsthand, we would raise our arms and utter three syllables, as if they were three separate one-syllable words (since we didn't see it written down, I suppose there's no way we could be certain they were intended to be three words, rather than some other combination of three syllables). We were instructed that these three syllables translated into English expanded out into 8 words, which I would likewise ask people not to type out.
I trust we all know what I'm talking about. My point is that in the temple endowment itself we see a good example of a very simple and short utterance being taken to mean a significantly more complex expression in English.
Detractors may well respond that an expansion from 3 syllables to 8 words (actually, 8 syllables too) is much smaller-scale than the expansion in the KEP. I would reply that yes, this is true, but that the KEP describes various degrees, of various lengths. An expansion of the 1st degree would be fairly short, while the 2nd degree would be longer, and so forth, up till we had the 5th degree coming in at a freaking paragraph.
How do we know Joseph Smith didn't envision something similar between Adamic and English that the KEP proposes for Egyptian to English? The concept is similar, although perhaps this temple utterance might only count as 2nd degree, or something like that.
What do you guys think?