DiscussMormonism.com

I'm not referring to the manner of its discovery, but the actual content.

Here is a starter -

The frequency of epic battles and the sheer numbers of those involved seem to be absolutely impossible. In recorded history, anywhere near the Book of Mormon time period, there are no wars in any culture that I'm aware of that came within a fraction of the purported size and scope of the Lamanite/ Nephite battles. Years ago I posed a similar question on FAIR, nobody could give an example of any group waging such colossal battles.

This scenario is similar to the Jaredite barges in that a closer examination of the subject reveals the absurdity. When you start to think about all of the factors involved in waging primitive warfare, especially without the aid of beasts of burden, the number of deal breakers becomes overwhelming.

What do you find odd about the book?

The characters are cartoonish. All good, all bad. Even the few attempts at complexity seem flat. I think that's part of the reason BH Roberts said it sounds like it was written by an immature mind.

One is Nephi making a ship. I've taken up amateur luthiery, and made two violins from scratch, and am starting a third, and a cello. It was hard enough to make these tiny little violins with commercialy-produced tools, professionally-harvested woods, books to read from, brains to pick on the internet, and so forth. Just imagine for a moment how much more complex building a freaking ship would be. I mean, even building just a 10-foot rowboat using the planking method, or lapstrake, or whatever other traditional boat-building methods there are, took untold hours and training by master shipwrights.

The notion that Nephi, land-lubber extraordinaire, actually mined his own ore, smelted it and made metal tools, then harvested enough wood, and of sufficient quality, season it properly, and then was able to carve the pieces just right, fit them together just right, and make it all tight enough that with just some minimal caulking with, say, pitch, would have been seaworthy enough to sail from freaking the Red Sea all the way around the world to the Americas is just beyond belief. Not to mention they would have required many casks and barrels in which to store fresh water (that's a very long journey), tons of food, and so forth. Just the aquisition of the tools, wood, and skills necessary to have created all the necessary barrels and casks would have been beyond him in the time allowed. I suppose they could have used clay jars for it all instead, assuming weight was not a problem. And don't forget that it says they brought seeds and stuff with them to plant crops when they got there.

I have a book written by a guy named George Sturt, called "The Wheelwright's Shop", where he describes the experience necessary, which is all but extinct nowadays, even to just pick out the right trees to harvest, not to mention how to prepare it for seasoning, season it for a period of years, and then how to saw out the planks and other lumber necessary to build wagons, just the knowledge and skill with wood harvesting and seasoning itself would have been far beyond Nephi, not to mention all the other disciplines required to mine ore, make tools, build the ship, fit it out (he'd need rope and sales, and a rigging plan, and a knowledge of splicing, knots, lashing, and so forth that he wouldn't have had as well), is almost mind-boggling.

There's a reason why ship and boat-building were revolutionary inventions back when they initially came about, and that it took thousands of years to evolve from the simplest craft to, say, the "state of the art" in wooden ship building reached by, say, the mid-19th century.

I'm not convinced that anyone on Earth was building "blue water" ocean-going vessels in 600 BC, that would have been capable of going all the way around the world in the way described.

Oh yeah, but we know it's possible, because all God had to do was show Nephi how to do it. Which he did. ;-)

Question: does anyone recall offhand how long the Book of Mormon says it took for Nephi to build his ship? I would argue that however long that was, it wouldn't have even been enough time for Joseph to have harvested the wood, prepared it for seasoning, and then seasoned it, much less anything else of all the required activities and accomplishments.

Sethbag wrote:One is Nephi making a ship. .

Just one word answers your concerns, seth. NOAH.

And Nephi didn't have a build a boat big enough to take two of some kinds of animals, 7 of others, all the food to feed them for a year. He just had to get a small family across the Atlantic. No big.

charity wrote:

Sethbag wrote:One is Nephi making a ship. .

Just one word answers your concerns, seth. NOAH.

And Nephi didn't have a build a boat big enough to take two of some kinds of animals, 7 of others, all the food to feed them for a year. He just had to get a small family across the Atlantic. No big.

Charity, what do YOU find odd about the Book of Mormon?

the road to hana wrote:
Charity, what do YOU find odd about the Book of Mormon?

odd = differing in nature from what is ordinary, usual, or expected, singular or peculiar in a strange or eccentric way

King Benjamin who worked for his own support and didn't get all high minded

Ammon, who became a servant of the king as a way to spread the Gospel

The people of Nephi in the 200 years after Christ, how they lived in peace.

Pretty different from the ordinary.

Seth,

great post! It just goes to show that once you scratch the surface of some of these activities, the absolute impossibility of these tasks towers in front of you. You see, I never even thought about the harvesting or seasoning of the wood.

This question has puzzled my for some time. I have seen a number of people on message board who express a deep attatchment to the Book of Mormon beyond spiritual testamony, beyond its representative value for the church or Joseph Smiths calling. There are people who perceive some message in the book to which they feel strongly attached and by which they are deeply influenced. Im scatching my head wondering what?

Charity made a beginning with some specific suggestions.

I am deeply repelled by the picture of the church in the new world (AD) going from such excellence and success to utter oblivion.

Partly my distaste is simple skepticism. Beyond that it seems to picture the world as evil and threatening beyond my wildest nightmare.

Are people attached to that fear?

charity wrote:

Sethbag wrote:One is Nephi making a ship. .

Just one word answers your concerns, seth. NOAH.

And Nephi didn't have a build a boat big enough to take two of some kinds of animals, 7 of others, all the food to feed them for a year. He just had to get a small family across the Atlantic. No big.

One word, Charity: ROFLMAO.

charity wrote:

the road to hana wrote:
Charity, what do YOU find odd about the Book of Mormon?

odd = differing in nature from what is ordinary, usual, or expected, singular or peculiar in a strange or eccentric way

King Benjamin who worked for his own support and didn't get all high minded

Ammon, who became a servant of the king as a way to spread the Gospel

The people of Nephi in the 200 years after Christ, how they lived in peace.

Pretty different from the ordinary.

Great examples Charity. As a child, I loved the multiple volume illustrated Book of Mormon set. I can still picture the blanket on which all the lamanite arms, which were severed by Ammons sword, lay in a pile.

Are those volumes still sold? I'm kind of guessing not - maybe a tad too violent with the color depictions?