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Book of Mormon Tours...is this a dishonest business?
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:23 am
by _Scottie
Has anyone here been on one of the Book of Mormon tours?
From the
Book of Mormon Tours website...
Rather than take groups exclusively to the better known, post-classic (post-Book of Mormon) archaeological sites in Central America, we balanced our tours with visits to a wider range of archaeological sites dating to the Olmec era (dates correlating with the Jaredite nation), pre-classic era (Nephite and Lamanite civilizations) and classic and post-classic era (Mayan and Aztec cultures).
Another unique distinction is that we concentrate our studies to the Mesoamerican region (southern Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, and the Yucatan Peninsula), where well known LDS archaeologists and scholars propose many Book of Mormon sites. Using the scriptures and scholarly studies as our guide, together we discover those mountain barriers, wilderness regions, waterways and great seas that play such a significant role in the history of the Jaredites, Nephites and Lamanites.
We pledge the highest quality available in tour leadership, management, air and ground transportation, hotel accommodations and cuisine. We know that this may be the only time that you travel to this beautiful land and we want it to remain with you forever as a highlight of your life. That's why we offer a first-class tour of the beauties of Mesoamerica.
I'm just wondering how they present the itinerary. What are the "scholarly studies" that they use and do they pass them off as actual locations, or suggested locations? Do they try and pass off Olmec, Mayan and Aztec cultures as matching what we find in the Book of Mormon?
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:26 am
by _Scottie
I just checked out the itinerary there...
Day 2: FridayTapachula, Chiapas
This morning we will board a flight to the city of Tapachula. We will then begin our tour with a visit to the site of Izapa in the proposed area for the Nephite’s “land of first inheritance.” While visiting Izapa, we will see Stela 5, the “Tree of Life Stone”. This engraved stone dating back to 300 BC may depict Lehi’s dream as recorded in first Nephi. The remainder of the day will be free to relax and enjoy the pool at our hotel. (Breakfast, Dinner)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this artifact has been thoroughly debunked, right?
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:34 am
by _Trevor
Scottie,
The short answer to your question is yes. It is a dishonest enterprise, if it is undertaken by people who know better. I am not certain that it is in this case, but this is precisely the kind of thing that is easily exploited by con artists.
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:38 am
by _Ray A
Trevor wrote:Scottie,
The short answer to your question is yes. It is a dishonest enterprise, if it is undertaken by people who know better. I am not certain that it is in this case, but this is precisely the kind of thing that is easily exploited by con artists.
I have put the key phrase in bold.
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:46 am
by _Scottie
Ray A wrote:Trevor wrote:Scottie,
The short answer to your question is yes. It is a dishonest enterprise, if it is undertaken by people who know better. I am not certain that it is in this case, but this is precisely the kind of thing that is easily exploited by con artists.
I have put the key phrase in bold.
I have a hard time believing that someone that travels to these locations for a living is only relying on what some BYU "scholar" is telling them about locations and evidences. They should at least have a rudimentary knowledge of how actual life was, dontcha think?
Plus, I'd be willing to bet that they are met with some resistant critics who are only there because the wife wanted to take the kids.
So, no, I'd have to believe that they know about the problems with the Book of Mormon and mesoamerican studies.
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:59 am
by _Ray A
Scottie wrote:I have a hard time believing that someone that travels to these locations for a living is only relying on what some BYU "scholar" is telling them about locations and evidences. They should at least have a rudimentary knowledge of how actual life was, dontcha think?
Plus, I'd be willing to bet that they are met with some resistant critics who are only there because the wife wanted to take the kids.
So, no, I'd have to believe that they know about the problems with the Book of Mormon and mesoamerican studies.
I can't determine motives, but I brought this up in a much earlier thread on this board. Not even FARMS will concede that there is "concrete evidence" about where these civilisations were. They (the tour organisers) do write:
...where well known LDS archaeologists and scholars propose many Book of Mormon sites.
As far as I'm aware, they don't claim these are
actual Book of Mormon sites, only "proposed" sites.
The cuisine does sound good.
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:00 am
by _karl61
They should not be booking flights to South America for sure. They really should be booking flights to the end of Baja California.
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:50 am
by _Mister Scratch
Ray A wrote:Trevor wrote:Scottie,
The short answer to your question is yes. It is a dishonest enterprise, if it is undertaken by people who know better. I am not certain that it is in this case, but this is precisely the kind of thing that is easily exploited by con artists.
I have put the key phrase in bold.
Give me a break, Ray! At the
very least folks like DCP and Sorenson and whoever else know that their theories and speculations are
highly controversial. In my thread, I demonstrated quite clearly that these guys are not confident enough to present this stuff in a normative academic setting, so they obviously perfectly well "know better". This whole enterprise is a sham, plain and simple.
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:54 am
by _Ray A
Mister Scratch wrote:
Give me a break, Ray! At the very least folks like DCP and Sorenson and whoever else know that their theories and speculations are highly controversial. In my thread, I demonstrated quite clearly that these guys are not confident enough to present this stuff in a normative academic setting, so they obviously perfectly well "know better". This whole enterprise is a sham, plain and simple.
Sham[e], sham[e], sham[e]!
You are so wise. You might even be related to Baalim's ass.
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:59 am
by _Mister Scratch
Ray A wrote:Mister Scratch wrote:
Give me a break, Ray! At the very least folks like DCP and Sorenson and whoever else know that their theories and speculations are highly controversial. In my thread, I demonstrated quite clearly that these guys are not confident enough to present this stuff in a normative academic setting, so they obviously perfectly well "know better". This whole enterprise is a sham, plain and simple.
Sham[e], sham[e], sham[e]!
You are so wise. You might even be related to Baalim's ass.
I'm trying to decide which is preferable, Ray: your violent, sociopathic "rager" posts, or your completely substance-free "look what a rube I am!" posts. Your lack of maturity is quite striking, mate.