DiscussMormonism.com

In my experience the Mormon church, as an institution, harbors grandiose illusions of it's own importance. Institutional pomposity does, however, trickle down to affect some members in a very bad way.

Dan Peterson once queried as to why Jews would want to alienate Mormons, because Jews have so few friends. To most people, that would seem arrogant. But you see, what Peterson knows that the Jews and everyone else, for that matter, don't is that EVERYONE needs Mormons! Mormons, not Yahweh, Jesus, Mohamed or any other Prophet or deity, are the saviors of humankind. Some ego inflated devout Mormons spend their minuscule amount of free time attending temple ceremonies saving both Jew and gentile, all the while swelling with righteous pride like the future Gods they believe themselves to be.

So many Mormons I know believe the entire world revolves around them and their church - every advance in medicine or science or technology is specially orchestrated by God to benefit the One True Church. The Internet was created to further genealogical research. Satellites came to be for the main purpose of broadcasting General conference. The end of the Cold War was designed to allow Mormon missionaries into Russia, ad nauseum...

How can Mormons NOT have an inflated sense of self-importance? They're taught that they were selected in the pre-existence to come forth in the last dispensation. They are a chosen people, an elect priesthood, the bearers of God's absolute truth, and the salvation of the world is in their hands.

What Mormons don't seem to understand is how incredibly unimportant their church really is in the grand scheme of things. As far as world religions go, their influence is infinitesimal. Jews and almost everyone else, for that matter, couldn't care less what Mormons think. Most people view Mormonism as not much more than a weird cult that's adherents don't drink coffee or alcohol. Most of the people where I live think Mormonism was started by John Smith, if they can recall any name at all. Joseph Smith said his name would be known throughout the world for good or evil, but in reality, it isn't known by very many people at all, which would undoubtedly be disappointing to him, megalomaniac that he was.

The Mormon church can go along believing it's grandiose illusions and patting itself on the back while the rest of the world simply ignores it.

Kimberly Ann

Feel better now?

Replace Mormon in the above diatribe with American. See if that works? Or any other group of people that suppose themselves to be maaahvelous. It's human nature to think the group they belong to is uber special. This is not something confined to LDS.

Don't talk that way about me. I'm a God for crying out loud. A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! WORSHIP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

The Nehor wrote:Don't talk that way about me. I'm a God for crying out loud. A GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! WORSHIP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

Nehor, I thought of you when I re-read my post.

KA

One thing I find particularly offensive about Mormon theology is Baptism for the Dead. Why do members think it appropriate to baptize folks who repeatedly refused to become Mormons when they were living? It seems nothing short of rude. I've friends and neighbors who are just chomping at the bit to posthumously baptize family members who have steadfastly refused all attempts to be converted to Mormonism! To presume that those folks, many of them careful followers of their own religions, would want to be made dead members of the Mormon church is not only absurd, it's arrogant!

Mormonism teaches that eventually everyone will be baptized a Mormon. Everyone. Why not do what Runtu suggested long ago? Just go ahead and baptize everyone by proxy, whether alive or dead! Use the phone book to get names. Then, send out postcards notifying lucky folks of their new membership in the Lord's church. They'll need to send a letter of resignation, of course, to have their names removed from the roll. And even if they do that, they'll be dunked by proxy again after their dead! There's no escape.

KA

KimberlyAnn wrote:Dan Peterson once queried as to why Jews would want to alienate Mormons, because Jews have so few friends.

Do you have a source on that one? I'd be interested to see his take on such a thing.

To most people, that would seem arrogant. But you see, what Peterson knows that the Jews and everyone else, for that matter, don't is that EVERYONE needs Mormons!

I can think of some people who don't "need" Mormons.

Mormons, not Yahweh, Jesus, Mohamed or any other Prophet or deity, are the saviors of humankind. Some ego inflated devout Mormons spend their minuscule amount of free time attending temple ceremonies saving both Jew and gentile, all the while swelling with righteous pride like the future Gods they believe themselves to be.

If you're talking about the "saviors on Mount Zion" approach, this stems from an Old Testament verse. Additionally, you seem to accuse all Mormons of participating in vicarious ordinances out of pride. There are likely some who might fit that description, but I wouldn't cast temple ordinances off as being based on that idea.

As an aside: for me, personally, I sometimes find myself not mindful enough of those in whose behalf I am participating in ordinances.

So many Mormons I know believe the entire world revolves around them and their church -

Last (I checked the majority of Mormons believe the earth revolves around the sun. ;)

...every advance in medicine or science or technology is specially orchestrated by God to benefit the One True Church. The Internet was created to further genealogical research. Satellites came to be for the main purpose of broadcasting General conference. The end of the Cold War was designed to allow Mormon missionaries into Russia, ad nauseum...

I've heard some things similar to this attitude expressed, for for the most part I have understood them as teaching the fruits of such advancements can benefit the Church, serve good purposes generally, and also contribute in negative ways.

How can Mormons NOT have an inflated sense of self-importance?

By "putting off the natural man" through the merits of Jesus Christ and becoming "as a child?"

They're taught that they were selected in the pre-existence to come forth in the last dispensation.

I've sometimes felt too much credit is given there, as well.

They are a chosen people, an elect priesthood, the bearers of God's absolute truth, and the salvation of the world is in their hands.

For someone who really believes this it can be rather daunting, humbling, weighty, or intimidating. Additionally, a "chosen" people would seek to help others become "chosen."

What Mormons don't seem to understand is how incredibly unimportant their church really is in the grand scheme of things.

I can see why you would believe that from your point of view, as you would likely grant a believing Mormon has a foundation for believing their Church is important.

As far as world religions go, their influence is infinitesimal.

Come on, we're working on it! ;)

Jews and almost everyone else, for that matter, couldn't care less what Mormons think.

This is likely alright; they ought to be ultimately concerned with what God thinks, if there be such a being ;).

Most people view Mormonism as not much more than a weird cult that's adherents don't drink coffee or alcohol. Most of the people where I live think Mormonism was started by John Smith, if they can recall any name at all.

Might I remind you that popular opinion apparently thought George W. Bush would make a good president not once, but twice. (Sadly, even many Mormons, in my opinion!)

Joseph Smith said his name would be known throughout the world for good or evil, but in reality, it isn't known by very many people at all, which would undoubtedly be disappointing to him, megalomaniac that he was.

Actually, Moroni, not Joseph Smith, said it. For a rural farm boy in New York I think he did pretty well for himself as far as being "known" in later days.

The Mormon church can go along believing it's grandiose illusions and patting itself on the back while the rest of the world simply ignores it.

OK...

KimberlyAnn wrote:One thing I find particularly offensive about Mormon theology is Baptism for the Dead. Why do members think it appropriate to baptize folks who repeatedly refused to become Mormons when they were living? It seems nothing short of rude. I've friends and neighbors who are just chomping at the bit to posthumously baptize family members who have steadfastly refused all attempts to be converted to Mormonism! To presume that those folks, many of them careful followers of their own religions, would want to be made dead members of the Mormon church is not only absurd, it's arrogant!

Mormonism teaches that eventually everyone will be baptized a Mormon. Everyone. Why not do what Runtu suggested long ago? Just go ahead and baptize everyone by proxy, whether alive or dead! Use the phone book to get names. Then, send out postcards notifying lucky folks of their new membership in the Lord's church. They'll need to send a letter of resignation, of course, to have their names removed from the roll. And even if they do that, they'll be dunked by proxy again after their dead! There's no escape.

KA

We have a few options, here. Mormonism is false, therefore their baptisms for the dead are quite simply a waste of time, even if well-intentioned. Or Mormonism is true, and baptism for the dead was revealed by a just yet merciful God.

Either way, then, what's the big deal? If some guy in Texas dances around a fire and sacrifices a dove in the name of Good Golly Miss Molly in order to induct me as a member of his own religious ways what do I care?

LifeOnaPlate wrote:

KimberlyAnn wrote:Dan Peterson once queried as to why Jews would want to alienate Mormons, because Jews have so few friends.

Do you have a source on that one? I'd be interested to see his take on such a thing.

Jews have precious few friends around the world

cksalmon wrote:

LifeOnaPlate wrote:

KimberlyAnn wrote:Dan Peterson once queried as to why Jews would want to alienate Mormons, because Jews have so few friends.

Do you have a source on that one? I'd be interested to see his take on such a thing.

Jews have precious few friends around the world

Thanks. I love context.