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I was talking to my wife last night about the uncomfortable conversation I had with a friend regarding my doubts. (I discussed that in another thread entitled "Uncomfortabel Conversation Re Doubts.") I told her that I have found myself feeling fairly naïve and, well, kind of stupid during the last year or so, as I have learned information and struggled to make it all fit with my testimony and worldview prior to knowing the information. This "feeling stupid" was only exacerbated when I went to the MAD board and several of the folks there expressed their surprise that I could spend the time I have in the Church and not know about the Book of Abraham issues, polyandry, etc. Of course, they are insane to think the average long-term church member actually has a clue about this stuff, but it still increased the feeling of having been naïve and a bit stupid (which was certainly the goal of some of them).

Then, when talking toa good friend and coming away with the feeling that I was now viewed by that friend in a signficiantly different light than I had been before expressing some doubts (in a very innocuous manner, I might add), I felt that "am I stupid" feeling again--like I was stupid for thinking that people can have relationships that go beyond their common beliefs and that if the beliefs were to vanish, the relationship could remain fully intact. I know that this is possible, but I felt naïve and stupid all over again. It made me look around and think about who might be "my friend" and who might be "my friend as long as I have a testimony". This process made me feel sick inside.

Don't get me wrong--this is not a post about feeling stupid like I was deceived, but just feeling like I should have known better, thought deeper, reflected more, asked more questions, etc. Why was I so willing to give so much without taking the time to give full consideration to the matter, from different viewpoints? Why did I spend inordinate amounts of time learning other things and increasing my knowledge, education etc. in so many areas and not spend anytime looking at what the possible "problems" were with that to which I dedicated a significant part of my life?

I am at a point where either I could lose my faith entirely, or deepen it significantly to a point at which it would not be fragile, but refined and not subject to surprise, or vulnerable because of naïvété. But I still sit in awe thinking about how in a matter of reading a few books and articles, my entire foundation was rocked and my spiritual life turned upside down. I blame the church in part and I think anyone who does not is simply ignoring the obvious; but I also blame myself. I did not know, really, on what my relationships were based. I did not know, really, on what kind of foundation my faith rested.

Damn.

Hmmm.... I know the feeling......................................................Just pondering................................................. I'm off to meditate on that one. Wow and we were talking about burning in the boosim... Where's the stupor of thought now. Or maybe it is both. I am very Naieve. Really it is rediculous. I get so confused because I just can't believe. I try but part of me cannot accept it and yet I live life like I do accept it. I don't know what you guys are talking about concerning the Book of Abraham and I don't even know what polyandry is, but I know deep in my heart somewhere that something is just not right. And you made me cry. Only just slightly though. That is good for a person that lacks emotion. I search and search and pray all the time. i read everything I can find and try to understand and talk to people. Most church members just make me think I believe again but when I go away I am like hang on a minuit... I can't believe that and I start all over again. It just a cycle that continues over and over. I believe everything I am told literally and I don't know why. And somehow I can place it all together but it just doesn't feel right for me. Religion seems wrong. If there is a god then why are we worshiping in the way we do? Surely if we are honestly that greatful for life then we must do more, but then wouldn't that be taking away our life? Then what would have been the purpose of creating us? It's like say someone teaches you something and you are so greatful for that lesson that you spend your whole life thanking and praising the teacher for it. Would the surely not get rather pissed of that you are spending all your time thanking them when they would want you to use that which you would have been taught and teach others and move on. Yes it is good to thank the person but one can only thank to a certain degree and wasteing that which has generously been given is not being thankful at all. Also would it not be safe to say that religion covers things up. It is there, set up by man to blind people of what really is there. that which say the original secret government don't want you to know.

Yeah. How could I have been so naïve?

And yet those that are yet to discover what we now know, are the first to condemn us.

Inconceivable wrote:Yeah. How could I have been so naïve?

And yet those that are yet to discover what we now know, are the first to condemn us.

Are you mms??

True believers in every religion on Earth recognize so easily how false everyone else's religion is, but find it impossible to conceive of even the possibility that theirs is false too. Mormons aren't any different in this regard than anyone else. That's how this works.

You don't have to feel stupid. Just recognize that humans commonly suffer entrapment of the mind in a false belief system whose properties include the ability to so skew one's worldview that the recognition that the belief system is actually not true becomes increasingly more difficult, until, with some people, it becomes literally impossible. There are some people who will simply never, ever be able to recognize that their cherished beliefs aren't actually true.

This happens all over the world, in every conceivable religion out there. You're not an exception in having had this this most human of experiences; rather, you were the rule. The exception is when you realized, and accepted, that your beliefs were wrong. That truly is exceptional.

So don't feel stupid. Feel smart. You did what billions of others can't.

I would hope the ultimate foundation of your faith would be Jesus Christ.

Sethbag wrote:True believers in every religion on Earth recognize so easily how false everyone else's religion is, but find it impossible to conceive of even the possibility that theirs is false too.

Wise words, indeed.

So don't feel stupid. Feel smart. You did what billions of others can't.

Sethbag hits it out of the park yet again!

LifeOnaPlate wrote:I would hope the ultimate foundation of your faith would be Jesus Christ.

The ultimate foundation necessary in the LDS church is faith in Joseph Smith. Everything, from the Book of Mormon to sustaining modern prophets, rests on faith in Joseph Smith.

If your faith is in Jesus Christ, you end up like me... and we all how that's viewed by the faithful here or on MAD.

Sethbag wrote:True believers in every religion on Earth recognize so easily how false everyone else's religion is, but find it impossible to conceive of even the possibility that theirs is false too. Mormons aren't any different in this regard than anyone else. That's how this works.

You don't have to feel stupid. Just recognize that humans commonly suffer entrapment of the mind in a false belief system whose properties include the ability to so skew one's worldview that the recognition that the belief system is actually not true becomes increasingly more difficult, until, with some people, it becomes literally impossible. There are some people who will simply never, ever be able to recognize that their cherished beliefs aren't actually true.

This happens all over the world, in every conceivable religion out there. You're not an exception in having had this this most human of experiences; rather, you were the rule. The exception is when you realized, and accepted, that your beliefs were wrong. That truly is exceptional.

So don't feel stupid. Feel smart. You did what billions of others can't.

Excellent post. The apologists mms ran into want you to feel stupid for not knowing about the issues earlier than you did.The corollary is that you should feel even stupider because you reached the wrong conclusions about this knowledge.

It really isn't a matter of intelligence but rather the courage to acknowledge reality. We may not be any smarter than the apologists (though I have my doubts with some), but unlike them, we did not let our predetermined conclusions get in the way of reality. And that makes us pretty smart.

Runtu wrote:It really isn't a matter of intelligence but rather the courage to acknowledge reality. We may not be any smarter than the apologists (though I have my doubts with some), but unlike them, we did not let our predetermined conclusions get in the way of reality. And that makes us pretty smart.

Fear, as the controlling factor in life, is hell. A church should be closer to heaven than hell.