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FARMS wants you to beef of its apologetics...

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:07 pm
by _cksalmon
"Joseph Smith and His Critics"

"Joseph Smith and His Critics"
June 16-July 31, 2008
Brigham Young University
Provo, Utah

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

The annual Joseph Smith summer seminar, sponsored by the Neal A. Maxwell Institute of Religious Scholarship, will take as its theme in 2008 "Joseph Smith and His Critics." The theme has been chosen in response to the growing number of critical attacks in books and on the web. Many Latter-day Saints have been affected adversely by these criticisms, and the materials supplied by our apologetic institutions have not always met their needs.

The purpose of the seminar is to bring together a dozen experienced LDS scholars to review the arguments on both sides of a number of these issues and formulate replies that serve inquirers more satisfactorily. The emphasis will be less on providing answers to every question than on putting the adverse evidence in a new light. Our aim is to persuade readers that the facts do not compel them to discard Joseph Smith. In fact, negative information can sometimes illuminate his cultural situation and mission.

Dean Terry Ball of the College of Religious Education and Andrew Skinner of the Neal a. Maxwell Institute have approved this approach and authorized me to extend this invitation. The seminar will meet for six and a half weeks and require full-time participation. Participants will receive a $3000 stipend. Each participant will write one or more papers to be presented at a symposium for the Religious Education faculty.

To apply to participate in the summer seminar, click here. Applications are due January 15, 2008, and announcement of successful candidates will be made February 15.

Richard Lyman Bushman


I take the following to be non-controversial conclusions, based on the notice:
(1) "Anti-Mormon" critics, via book and web-publishing, have adversely affected the faith of many Latter-day Saints.
(2) Current LDS apologia isn't always effective in answering the questions of Latter-day Saints ("the materials supplied by our apologetic institutions have not always met their needs").
(3) Inquirers need to be served with better apologetic arguments (The chosen LDS scholars are to "formulate replies that serve inquirers more satisfactorily").
(4) The emphasis of the program is less on directly answering ("all") specific questions than on placing potentially-negative information in a better light.
(5) Negative information exists.
(6) Negative information can be used for a positive apologetic end.
(7) Providing a positive way to view negative information can garner one $3000.

I appreciate the fact that LDS apologists are going to attempt to better their apologetic wares. But, for LDS MDB participants, do you personally think that the "apologetic institutions" of the LDS church are really currently failing some of their constituents? Do you believe that better apologetic answers will result in greater member retention? Or, as one recent MADB thread had it, isn't the real reason folks leave the LDS church sinfulness, rather than objective interpretation of the available evidence?

CKS

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:18 pm
by _Mister Scratch
Wow... Holy smokes, this is huge, CK. I am just blown away by a number of things in this. In one swift stroke, Bushman has dispelled a number of Mopologetic myths. I'm especially intrigued by Prof. Bushman's frank dismissal of the long-held legend that apologists aren't paid to do apologetics. (That $3,000 stipend sounds pretty nice. Do they throw in a per diem, I wonder?) I also find it interesting that he is saying outrightly that the purpose of apologetics is to prevent (as Elder Maxwell reportedly said to Steve Benson) the "critics from outflanking the Brethren." It also seems that he is admitting the main function of apologetics is "spin doctoring." Very, very intriguing, CK.

If I may ask, where did you come across this notice?

Re: FARMS wants you to beef of its apologetics...

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:23 pm
by _Trevor
cksalmon wrote:I appreciate the fact that LDS apologists are going to attempt to better their apologetic wares. But, for LDS MDB participants, do you personally think that the "apologetic institutions" of the LDS church are really currently failing some of their constituents? Do you believe that better apologetic answers will result in greater member retention? Or, as one recent MADB thread had it, isn't the real reason folks leave the LDS church sinfulness, rather than objective interpretation of the available evidence?


I like Richard Bushman, and I have a great deal of respect for him, but I think he is on the wrong track here. In my opinion, Mormons need an entirely new strategy for dealing with criticisms of Joseph Smith. Trying to salvage his credibility is not going to do it. Simply put, by current LDS standards of belief and expectation, Joseph Smith simply is not credible, and that is the problem. Mormons hold to a certain standard of personal behavior and a doctrinal foundation that Joseph Smith diverged from significantly. Either they need to drop the puritan, revisionist fantasy or drop the man.

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:30 pm
by _cksalmon
Mister Scratch wrote:Wow... Holy smokes, this is huge, CK. I am just blown away by a number of things in this. In one swift stroke, Bushman has dispelled a number of Mopologetic myths. I'm especially intrigued by Prof. Bushman's frank dismissal of the long-held legend that apologists aren't paid to do apologetics. (That $3,000 stipend sounds pretty nice. Do they throw in a per diem, I wonder?) I also find it interesting that he is saying outrightly that the purpose of apologetics is to prevent (as Elder Maxwell reportedly said to Steve Benson) the "critics from outflanking the Brethren." It also seems that he is admitting the main function of apologetics is "spin doctoring." Very, very intriguing, CK.

If I may ask, where did you come across this notice?


It's on the Maxwell/FARMS site:
http://maxwellinstitute.com/sumsem.html

CKS

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:33 pm
by _Mister Scratch
cksalmon wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:Wow... Holy smokes, this is huge, CK. I am just blown away by a number of things in this. In one swift stroke, Bushman has dispelled a number of Mopologetic myths. I'm especially intrigued by Prof. Bushman's frank dismissal of the long-held legend that apologists aren't paid to do apologetics. (That $3,000 stipend sounds pretty nice. Do they throw in a per diem, I wonder?) I also find it interesting that he is saying outrightly that the purpose of apologetics is to prevent (as Elder Maxwell reportedly said to Steve Benson) the "critics from outflanking the Brethren." It also seems that he is admitting the main function of apologetics is "spin doctoring." Very, very intriguing, CK.

If I may ask, where did you come across this notice?


It's on the Maxwell/FARMS site:
http://maxwellinstitute.com/sumsem.html

CKS


Well, I'm amazed that Bushman was apparently "dumb" enough to leak this fact about Mopologists receiving money for their efforts.

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:42 pm
by _Gadianton
CK,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I am honestly stunned. On the one hand, I have to applaud big B for his honesty, but on the other, has there ever been a more clear statement made that proves the Maxwell Institute and FARMS have nothing to do with honest scholarship, but are merely schools of rhetoric?

The emphasis will be less on providing answers to every question than on putting the adverse evidence in a new light


You bring up a good question, what's the point? Is this really going to help?

No. But it will expand the popularity of a hobby.

edited to add:

supplied by our apologetic institutions


That is apologetic, right? right.

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:10 am
by _charity
Holy smokes is right. You guys don't understand about stipends. People need to have a place to live and food to eat when they are away from home. Transportation to and from. Six and half weeks. That doesn't meet expenses much less pay for their time.

Or is it just jealousy that nobody pays for the cardboard for the signs you wave at General Conference? You might want to talk to Bob Betts. He gets about $40K to be an anti-Mormon. Ask him how he does it.

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:29 am
by _Mister Scratch
charity wrote:Holy smokes is right. You guys don't understand about stipends. People need to have a place to live and food to eat when they are away from home. Transportation to and from. Six and half weeks. That doesn't meet expenses much less pay for their time.


It is beside the point that the stipend "doesn't meet expenses." DCP and other Mopologists have insisted---strenuously and for a long time---that nobody received money for apologetic activities. This statement from Bushman totally blows up that old canard. LDS apologetics is something which is obviously being funded by the LDS Church, and Mopologists get paid for their activities.

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:27 am
by _charity
Mister Scratch wrote:
charity wrote:Holy smokes is right. You guys don't understand about stipends. People need to have a place to live and food to eat when they are away from home. Transportation to and from. Six and half weeks. That doesn't meet expenses much less pay for their time.


It is beside the point that the stipend "doesn't meet expenses." DCP and other Mopologists have insisted---strenuously and for a long time---that nobody received money for apologetic activities. This statement from Bushman totally blows up that old canard. LDS apologetics is something which is obviously being funded by the LDS Church, and Mopologists get paid for their activities.


EXPENSES! Not salary. Maxwell Institute has many independent sources of funding, not BYU and not the Church.

Green eyes, I guess, is at the root of your out of whack response.

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:29 am
by _Mister Scratch
charity wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
charity wrote:Holy smokes is right. You guys don't understand about stipends. People need to have a place to live and food to eat when they are away from home. Transportation to and from. Six and half weeks. That doesn't meet expenses much less pay for their time.


It is beside the point that the stipend "doesn't meet expenses." DCP and other Mopologists have insisted---strenuously and for a long time---that nobody received money for apologetic activities. This statement from Bushman totally blows up that old canard. LDS apologetics is something which is obviously being funded by the LDS Church, and Mopologists get paid for their activities.


EXPENSES! Not salary.


So what? The fact remains that these folks are receiving monetary compensation. What a pity that Bushman has made a liar out of The Good Professor!

Maxwell Institute has many independent sources of funding, not BYU and not the Church.


Oh, is that so? Would you care to provide evidence backing this up?