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"God has told us to preach the Gospel. We do that with the truth. Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, he tried to do the Lord's will as he understood it. Maybe he wasn't perfect, but he lived his life according to a standard most people will never be required to live. He suffered above what most people will have to endure. And he gave his life for his beliefs. He died approved by God as his prophet."

You really believe that the behavior of Joseph Smith was higher than that of a normal average man - in the eighteen hundreds and even today? There are millions of people that have had a very hard life - a lot harder than Joseph Smiths. What about the millions that starved to death in the Ukraine in the 1930's to start -

You did notice the word "most?"

thestyleguy wrote:"God has told us to preach the Gospel. We do that with the truth. Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, he tried to do the Lord's will as he understood it. Maybe he wasn't perfect, but he lived his life according to a standard most people will never be required to live. He suffered above what most people will have to endure. And he gave his life for his beliefs. He died approved by God as his prophet."

Granted my perspective is much different from charity's, but I don't believe that God asked Joseph Smith or any other LDS person to do anything. Nor was Joseph Smith asked to live a particular standard by anyone. Joseph Smith lived and suffered according to the choices he freely made. These choices vaulted him from utter obscurity to being the head of a community of over 10,000 people, and from poverty and powerlessness to living in a mansion and almost complete control of a city and a large militia. I do not feel particularly sorry for Smith, as it was largely his own behavior and missteps that placed his head in the proverbial noose. He did not have to sleep with the wives of other men. He did not have to destroy the press of the Expositor. Either he acted immorally or stupidly, and it cost him his life.

Trevor,

Wow. If you can study the life of Joseph Smith and that diatribe is all you can garner from that study I really pity you.

Every sermon he gave, every revelation he received, gave us a greater insight into the nature, attributes, and teachings of God. He gave us more doctrine and insight into the teachign of Jesus Christ than any other prophet we have record of.

No doubt if we had more information on many other prophets we could pick apart their lives as well. Moses's own family accused him of being a fallen prophet and sought to remove him from the position God had given him as well, as Oliver Cowdery did to Joseph, but Moses remained the Prophet, and Joseph did as well.

Instead of holding a prophet up to the light of false expectations passed down to us through the traditions of men, try viewing them from the perspective of the relationship each of us can have with God in spite of our shortcomings.

Gaz

Gazelam wrote:Trevor,

Wow. If you can study the life of Joseph Smith and that diatribe is all you can garner from that study I really pity you.

Pity me? LOL!!! Whatever. I am sure I "garnered" a lot more than I put into that statement, but I doubt it would sound much like your version of the events. At the same time, I doubt it would be entirely denigrating either. Here I focused on the bad to make a point. You can take it as a global condemnation of the man's life, if you want to voice your "outrage" so histrionically.

Gazelam wrote:Every sermon he gave, every revelation he received, gave us a greater insight into the nature, attributes, and teachings of God. He gave us more doctrine and insight into the teachign of Jesus Christ than any other prophet we have record of.

Now, there's an exaggeration in the opposite direction. Hagiography in place of history to be sure. By my reckoning, Joseph was an interesting Christian thinker, and the things he thought about largely belong in the category of myth. They in fact tell us nothing of the realia of the world.

Gazelam wrote:No doubt if we had more information on many other prophets we could pick apart their lives as well. Moses's own family accused him of being a fallen prophet and sought to remove him from the position God had given him as well, as Oliver Cowdery did to Joseph, but Moses remained the Prophet, and Joseph did as well.

I do not question that the man was a prophet. I only question what the significance of that is. I am no more bowled over by the authority of the mythical Moses than the theatrics of Joseph Smith.

Gazelam wrote:Instead of holding a prophet up to the light of false expectations passed down to us through the traditions of men, try viewing them from the perspective of the relationship each of us can have with God in spite of our shortcomings.

Everything about prophets concerns the traditions of humans, because that is what they were and what they left us.

Trevor's 100% spot on. Except, Trevor, you're wrong in saying that Joseph Smith didn't have to sleep with other mens' wives. He did have to. God said so. And when he was so reluctant to do it anyway, God sent his angel to brandish a sword at him and threaten to slaughter him if he didn't. Get with the program, man.

Sethbag wrote:Trevor's 100% spot on. Except, Trevor, you're wrong in saying that Joseph Smith didn't have to sleep with other mens' wives. He did have to. God said so. And when he was so reluctant to do it anyway, God sent his angel to brandish a sword at him and threaten to slaughter him if he didn't. Get with the program, man.

How can you be 100% spot on...except for...?? Wouldn't that make you like 92% spot on?? :)

Gazelam wrote: He gave us more doctrine and insight into the teachign of Jesus Christ than any other prophet we have record of.

Call for references.

Scottie wrote:How can you be 100% spot on...except for...?? Wouldn't that make you like 92% spot on?? :)

Who's quibbling over math?

edited for spelling, and in shame.

the road to hana wrote:

Gazelam wrote: He gave us more doctrine and insight into the teachign of Jesus Christ than any other prophet we have record of.

Call for references.

I think he did the opposite: he sliced Jesus into three different entities that made focusing on Jesus problematic : you go to Jesus's father with your problem, not to Jesus.