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While reading Stephen C. Lesueur's book about the 1838 Mormon War in Missouri, I read about Orson Hyde and Thomas B. Marsh leaving the saints and writing and signing affidavits in Richmond, Missouri, attesting to things they'd seen Joseph doing or causing to be done, including the sacking of Daviess County. Orson Hyde apparently came to regret this, and was accused of being a traitor and apparently recanted it, though I haven't yet seen what it is he actually said about it later.

Anyhow, later on he was called on a mission by Joseph Smith, and a year or so into this mission, Joseph Smith tells Orson's wife Marinda that she's given to him as a plural wife and they secretly marry. I can just imagine Joseph Smith thinking, in bed with Marinda, "Take that, Orson.! I'm in your bed, boinking your wife! LOL!"

I have to wonder. To what extent might "getting back" at Orson by bedding his wife behind his back have been a motive for this particular "marriage" by Joseph Smith?

Sethbag wrote:Anyhow, later on he was called on a mission by Joseph Smith, and a year or so into this mission, Joseph Smith tells Orson's wife Marinda that she's given to him as a plural wife and they secretly marry. I can just imagine Joseph Smith thinking, in bed with Marinda, "Take that, Orson.! I'm in your bed, boinking your wife! LOL!"

I have to wonder. To what extent might "getting back" at Orson by bedding his wife behind his back have been a motive for this particular "marriage" by Joseph Smith?

Compton (In Sacred Loneliness) says that Orson may have previously known about this. Compton presents no evidence that Marinda (Marinda Nancy Johnson/Hyde) co-habited with Joseph, rather, it was rumoured that she was a sexual partner of Willard Richards. She continued to live with Orson, until they divorced after 34 years of marriage, and bore children to him during that time. Orson was apparently more interested in younger wives, which contributed to Marinda's eventual alienation.

These people had very complex motivations and relationships, certainly not all noble, but I don't think it was quite as cut-and-dried as you suggest.

Yeah, I'm not saying it was all cut and dried, that's for sure.

I'm just wondering whether in this particular case, there was a bit of "payback" for Joseph in bedding his former denouncer's wife.

I mean, there's gotta be a reason why Joseph married this one living apostle's wife, but didn't marry others. He "tested" Heber C. Kimball telling him that he (Joseph) was to take Vilate Kimball as his wife, but didn't follow through with it. And yet he did marry Orson Hyde's wife behind his back while he was out on a mission.

I guess Orson wasn't present to "test", as Heber was. And maybe Joseph was just taking what was "his" while the true husband was away, and what was his was a little bit of private vengeance.

Interesting, seth.

I would say that, given human nature, it is highly likely that, at some level - maybe even hidden from himself - vengeance was part of his motivation.

What a bunch of characters some of these early founders were. In regards to Orson's testimony about Joseph Smith' behavior, there are two possibilities -

1 - Joseph Smith did the actions Orson attributed to him, like the sacking of Davies county
2 - Joseph Smith didn't do the actions Orson attributed to him, but Orson was willing to lie to get him in trouble

Neither prospect is very attractive, morally speaking.

Of course, on the other hand, perhaps Joseph Smith really was a prophet and God told him to bed Orson's wife. After all, Joseph Smith must have felt sexual attraction for her, and that meant she had been given him in the pre-existence. ;)

Joseph was hitting on Orson's wife prior to her marriage to Orson and when Joseph was married to Emma. Once he gets more power he sends Orson on a mission and then again starts hitting on his wife; this time succeeds.

thestyleguy wrote:Joseph was hitting on Orson's wife prior to her marriage to Orson and when Joseph was married to Emma. Once he gets more power he sends Orson on a mission and then again starts hitting on his wife; this time succeeds.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Maybe he felt more justified taking Marinda since Orson had betrayed him. I really don't know. Ray's summary is pretty much correct: Nancy was living in the same house with Willard Richards, and rumors were flying that they were sexually intimate. I don't know why anyone would suggest that she and Joseph weren't sexual, though.

I just finished reading RSR... again.... the discussion here also fits perfectly with Orson/Sarah/Joseph/JohnC story - Joseph calls Orson on a mission - then secretly marries Sarah - everything is hush hush - once John C. Bennett is exed' he makes the accusation of Joseph's activity with Sarah, Joseph counters with Oh yeah - you were practicing spiritual wifery with her not me.. is is possible Sarah was playing them all?? I say oh yeah baby -- she was riding the P-Hood pole to celestial glory.. banging the Prophet, President, General, Mayor, Chief Judge, Magistrate, King, and John C. too...

Apparently Joseph Smith's diary has an entry listing Smith's marriage to Marinda Hyde, under her maiden name Marinda Johnson. It says "Apr 42 Marinda Johnson to Joseph Smith". I wonder why there's so much confusion as to exactly what happened?

Also, I had totally missed the connection with the mob. The mob spoken of in that thing Moksha posted was actually the one that tarred and feathered Joseph, right? So it was some involvement between Joseph and Marinda Hyde, in her pre-married state, that got Joseph tarred and feathered?

Sethbag wrote:Also, I had totally missed the connection with the mob. The mob spoken of in that thing Moksha posted was actually the one that tarred and feathered Joseph, right? So it was some involvement between Joseph and Marinda Hyde, in her pre-married state, that got Joseph tarred and feathered?

The accusation was that young Marinda's brother instigated the mob because he thought Joseph had been involved with his sister while Joseph and Emma were living with Marinda's parents. Her brother was part of the mob. The further rumor was that Orson Hyde later divorced Marinda when Brigham Young chided him about these dalliances years later. For whatever reason, they did divorce.