Chalk Up Another MAD-Influenced Apostasy

[_Mister Scratch]

It looks like they have helped to crush the faith of yet another Saint:

As most of you know I am having struggles with my faith, Last night I watched "The Testaments" the church movie about Christs ministry in Israel and to the Book of Mormon peoples. I really felt bad last night cuz I was on the side of the unbelieving, everytime the preacher guy would say something I found myself echoing what the anti dude in the film was saying, that it is not reasonable there is a being such as Christ. I think I am in real bad shape if I am thinking that, I have tried a bit of prayer, all be it not much, and have been reading scripture assignments with my wife. Not much effort I know, but it is some. Our bishop wanted to meet with my wife and I, and I have been doing everything in my power to avoid him. Have I travelled to far down the path of apostacy to return if I am thinking it is not reasonable for Christ to exist.


Many thanks

Curt

What is most interesting is the "advice" given out to him by TBMs:

I think you need to stop listening to anti stuff. get as far away from the fence as you can, and then pray and fast and pay your tithing and talk to your bishop. There is nothing that we can say to change you, you have to do that on your own and it takes one small step at a time.

And check out this one, which is startling in its frankness:

What you should do is question yourself as to what you think is in it for you to pull out of the believing mode. Will it be easier? Will you not need to be accountable for things anymore? Will you be able to do whatever you want without feeling worried? What about your wife and child. It's easy to be selfish and only think of ourselves, but the choices you make will change their lives as well.
Maybe you need to look into yourself and see if there is not something needing repentence of. A lot of times, it's much easier to run from it, then to face it and wipe it out. The fact is, if you do the things to bring the spirit back to you, the anti stuff will have no affect on you...simple as that. The spirit fills you with pure knowledge if you let it and the anti stuff is just silliness.
Another thing. I would leave this site if you are worried that it is too late....I'm sure it's not helping you to be here.

(emphasis added)

Wow! She actually admits that the aptly named MADboard can *aid* in a person's apostasy! Perhaps rcrocket was right.

We cannot go through this thread without at least a little bit of Hammer:

Of course it is your choice to feed it. [i.e., the seed of apostasy] Nurture it. Pamper it as a tease and jab at your family. It would come first in your life before your wife and little girl, as it has this last year as we have watched you post here.

What what do you say? Let it live and destroy your family? Allow it to suck the joy out of your wife's life? Your choice.

Not very nice! But it gets worse: later, Hammer insinuates that this poster is mentally ill:

Have you considered being evaluated for drugs that could help with depression? Do you have other medical issues?

Gee whiz, don't you think that aptly named MADmods ought to boot Hammer off the board? His behavior can't be good for membership stats.

Finally, here is one other very interesting post from lynnr:

usgt a few rambling thoughts.

First, your fate is not sealed. Why do I say that. Only those concerned about their fate have reason not to be. One of the best evidences you're still in His hands is that you still care. Those who have left God and who have gone too far never care about such matters. It's obvious: you still care! That's evidence His grace is still at work in your heart. I'm saying--an apostate is never concerned about apostasy. That's its deadliness.

Second, you must remember: you're the sheep and He's the Shepherd. It never varies--the Shepherd seeks the sheep; not the sheep, the shepherd. Your destiny and security is in the hands of the Good Shepherd. Not yours. And he ALWAYS (I mean--always) leaves the 99 and goes after the one struggling. Don't you know He sees your struggling. I'm saying--you may not be able to trust your faithfulness to Him, but you can always trust His faithfulness to you. In our unfaithfulness He is faithful. His faithfulness, not ours, is our anchor.

(emphasis added)

Is it just me, or is this very confusing? On the one hand, she says that his fate "is not sealed," and on the other, she says that he, in essence, has no control over his destiny, and that he is merely a "sheep".... Hmmm.....

[Anonymous]

Is it just me, or is this very confusing? On the one hand, she says that his fate "is not sealed," and on the other, she says that he, in essence, has no control over his destiny, and that he is merely a "sheep".... Hmmm.....

Just as a sidenote, "lynnr" is a guy. A Baptist preacher actually. Sort of.

[_Runtu]

The interesting thing for me is the idea that this is a life-or-death situation for so many people. We were taught our whole lives that losing our testimonies was about the worst thing that could happen to us. Looking back on it, it's not a huge deal figuring out Mormonism. At least not once you're out and put it in perspective.

[_dartagnan]

This is such a no-brainer. But the talking heads at MAD are not eally concerned about others at all. They keep the forum up for their own selfish reasons.

Discussion forums have helped how many people decide to join the Church?

Jan Anderson is the only person I know of who said discussion forums helped her, but then, this was during the glory days of ZLMB.

Discussion forums have helped how many people decide to leave the Church?

I can think of quite a few actually.

Most who don't leave, at the lest, become more liberal and less orthodox in their attitudes and thinking. And of course we know this is just a step in the direction of apostasy. Some are closer to it than others, but the point is, TBMs are more likely to remain TBMs if they have no contact with discussion forums.

[_Mister Scratch]

This is such a no-brainer. But the talking heads at MAD are not really concerned about others at all. They keep the forum up for their own selfish reasons.

Just out of curiosity, what do you reckon those "selfish reasons" are?

Discussion forums have helped how many people decide to join the Church?

Jan Anderson is the only person I know of who said discussion forums helped her, but then, this was during the glory days of ZLMB.

Discussion forums have helped how many people decide to leave the Church?

I can think of quite a few actually.

Most who don't leave, at the least, become more liberal and less orthodox in their attitudes and thinking. And of course we know this is just a step in the direction of apostasy. Some are closer to it than others, but the point is, TBMs are more likely to remain TBMs if they have no contact with discussion forums.

Well, it is all just more evidence in favor of Shades's "Internet/Chapel Mormon" distinction. In any case, the Church has really dug itself in a hole in terms of the flow of information. The Brethren spent so many years obscuring historical truths, and now all of it is blowing up in a really damaging way. Apologists are in a tough spot: they can try to combat critics on the Web (which doesn't really work, as per the above example), or they can just throw in the towel and cross their fingers in the hopes that struggling members won't bother to ever look into anything online.

[_Mister Scratch]

Something that occurs to me: How is it that any right-minded TBM can continue on, in good conscience, to justify participating on the MADboard when s/he knows that it harms struggling members? Do they figure that "it's the thought that counts"? Or do they imagine themselves receiving some kind of "spiritual brownie points" for being defenders?

[_The Nehor]

Something that occurs to me: How is it that any right-minded TBM can continue on, in good conscience, to justify participating on the MADboard when s/he knows that it harms struggling members? Do they figure that "it's the thought that counts"? Or do they imagine themselves receiving some kind of "spiritual brownie points" for being defenders?

I don't see where participation on that board is given as the defining circumstance leading to this.

[_dartagnan]

Just out of curiosity, what do you reckon those "selfish reasons" are?

Well, we all know now that the MAD forum belongs to Juliann.

She once claimed that she voted to close it down (which I doubt) because it was counterproductive (which it is), but since it was part of FAIR, it was decided by the powers that be, that it should remain up. Yet, since then FAIR has distanced itself from the forum, changing its name and removing it from the website. Presumably, it still remains Juliann's baby.

So if it belongs to Juliann and if FAIR is no longer connected to it, then what could possibly be its purpose for remaining if not to serve Juliann with her sole claim to fame?

She knows it is counter-productive, but it draws attention to her whenever she makes an appearance. No matter how stupid her comments, she just shows up and her entourage of moderator support makes sure she sounds witty by suppressing any critical feedback. Dan Peterson and David Bokovoy are the only other persons I know who can count on this kind of spotlight and ego massage.

[_Sethbag]

The problem is, Shades and others would have their boards no matter what the TBMs think. And some TBMs just can't let an argument go unanswered*. I think some, and I include in this Charity, like to think of themselves as Defenders of the Faith. I think it makes them feel good knowing they're taking one for the team, as it were. It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it, right?

*actually they let lots of questions go unanswered, preferring obfuscation and "answering the question we should have asked" instead.

[_Dr. Shades]

How is it that any right-minded TBM can continue on, in good conscience, to justify participating on the MADboard when s/he knows that it harms struggling members?

I don't think they realize it harms struggling members. If the struggling members eventually leave, then it was the struggling members' own fault, since (in the TBMs' minds) they were given all the necessary answers but were too prideful and/or lazy to incorporate them.