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Given Christmas is nearly upon us, and yes Coggins, I'm not afraid to put the "Christ" in Christmas, I thought I'd take a minute and apologize to the believing Mormons and especially the apologists. You've been given a raw deal and I just wanted to say that I'm sorry. I'm sorry that the church isn't true. I really am. Not for myself, I'm beyond that struggle now, but for all of you who were sincerely hoping for a great sci-fi adventure after death, I honestly feel a little bad. Hugh Nibley once said after reading dozens of science fiction books, that the entire genre was nothing more than a poor substitute for the Gospel, which I took to mean the Gospel was the greatest science fiction story ever created. I could see his point at the time, the high-tech Urim and Thummim, sometimes scaling to planetary size. The ability to sustain life on and colonize the moon and the sun. Galactic scale struggles with the forces of evil. Graviton force shields to mask the location of Kolob. Endlessly seeding universes which likely entails creating bubble universes from the mysterious quantum soap (as the apologists teach) all to be populated by uncountable sex acts. I won't go as far to say it's a noble dream, but it's one hell of a fantasy, and I can't honestly fault anyone for wanting it to be true. Mitt Romney's favorite book is Battlefield Earth, that is, next to the Bible (interpreted Mormon style) and I for one, understand and condone the escapism.

And I'm sorry it's all not true. I'm sorry that when you die that it's going to be lights out forever! Eternal blackness! Your existence, snuffed out, never to arise again. Doesn't that scare you? No Celestial treats for anyone. No joys in visiting the critics among the lower kingdoms and saying to them, "I told you so." It's just not going to happen. I understand you really want it to happen. That you can't imagine living the drudgery of day-to-day existence and then fading into nothingness. But eternal death, somewhat unfortunately to the thinking of many, is what has been slated for you.

I'm sorry that this whole epic drama was concocted by a man who was dangling a carrot on a stick to his followers in order to get his cut of adventure, glory and sex early. He gave you the fantasy of the next world so that he could live his fantasy in this world. I am remorseful that Joseph "Statutory" Smith was looking down at the hay with the barn door closed rather than up in the sky through a quiet grove of trees. It's just the way it was. And most of you were taught the majestic version so early that it's not really by choice that you believe in it and clutch it tightly to your chest.

And as I mentioned in the opening, I'm especially sorry for the apologists whose sense of duty binds them to invent the most fantastic excuses and craft the most absurd arguments -- excuses and arguments more unbelievable than Mormon mythology itself -- in order to redeem a man who never did anything more than use your own good faith and self-denial to see to his own self-indulgence.

It's a real shame that you were born into this mess, and since the church will never apologize to you for it, I just thought in the spirit of the Christmas season that I'd do it myself.

I'm sorry.

Apology accepted.

Thank you.

So, we're good?

oohh, oohh! A Nibleyism I'm unfamiliar with!! CFR, dude, C. F-ing. R.!!!

What about: sorry that you have to live a dreary life without whiskey and masturbation?

I'm sorry.

Hope is one of the few things I control for myself. I can't control the weather, my children, my Sweet Pickle, the way people react to me, the Church, the price of gas, or any of a number of other factors in my life. I can, however, control whether or not I have hope. I have a friend who is dying. She has pancreatic cancer, her kidneys have shut down, they've taken her off everything except her pain meds, and she has only a short while to live. She is not ready to die, and I am not ready to let her die. I may be unable to impact her life now, but I can hope for sunshine and a smiling face to greet her when she walks through the Death Door. If that makes me stupid and foolish, too bad.

I could not live without hope. I can live with unending pain, money problems, and war, but I cannot live without hope. I'm sorry you have to.

harmony wrote: I have a friend who is dying. She has pancreatic cancer, her kidneys have shut down, they've taken her off everything except her pain meds, and she has only a short while to live. She is not ready to die, and I am not ready to let her die. I may be unable to impact her life now, but I can hope for sunshine and a smiling face to greet her when she walks through the Death Door.

Sorry about your friend. I'm sure your love, friendship and support is something that will be a great source of strength as she passes from the known to the unknown, and hope is a happy travelling companion.

Harmony,

Atheists have hope, just a different kind than the hope that we will see our dead loved ones again one day. I hope that, when I die, as many people will remember me with love and affection as remember my friend who died of cancer a few years ago. I hope that occasionally they will dream about me, like I dream about her, when I see her young and healthy again, and I get to touch her face again and tell her I love her. I hope that my children will always have a warm place in their heart when they see a picture of my face, and know how much I loved them. I hope that I will be able to spend the rest of my days in relative health so my sweetie and I can grow old together in relative ease.

I hope that our children, and our children's children, will get their acts together and resolve some of the more pressing issues that face our species, so that their children and their children's children can know the joy of sunshine on their face, as I have known.

Our existence is, in a way, a miracle - it's just not the sort of miracle that requires a god. And I mostly hope that I remember to enjoy and appreciate that miracle every day I can.

Mormonism - a great story slain by hard facts.

It really is a great story, and that's part of what enthralled me for so long. It's really a better story than mainstream Christianity, in my opinion.

Now if we studied scientology, we might come to the conclusion that THAT has the best story of all. It must have something appealing story-wise, to attract all those actors.

beastie wrote:Mormonism - a great story slain by hard facts.

It really is a great story, and that's part of what enthralled me for so long. It's really a better story than mainstream Christianity, in my opinion.

There were any number of us for years who didn't realize there was any difference between the two. For some of us born into it, we thought the story of Mormonism was the story of Christianity.

Converts, maybe, have the benefit of seeing things a little differently. For the rest of us, it can take a long time to unfuse the two.