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I thought Apostle George Lee was excommunicated for molesting a child. Turns out he was excommunicated for apostacy. He wanted the GA's to turn the church over to the Native Americans, because "That message was that the American Indian, who according to LDS theology are descendants of the Book of Mormon people, are actually distant, yet direct, descendents of Abraham."

here's the link: http://www.watchman.org/LDS/lee.htm

Some questions:

1. Do the advances in DNA science help or hinder his case?

2. His contention is that Native Americans carry the birthright of direct priesthood authority, what he calls True Isreal, and they are direct descendants of Abraham, and Gentiles do not have the birthright and are not entitled to those blessings that True Isreal has. As such, the administration of the gospel to the world needs to be turned over to True Isreal, which of course mean a church worth billions of dollars is supposed to be turned over True Isreal (no doubt led by one George P Lee). Obviously the FP and Twelve disagreed with him and summarily excommunicated him. However, that happened at lighteneing speed. The letter is dated Sept 1, 1989. His excommunication was reported in the newspaper on Sept 2, 1989.

3. Although he had an agenda, he was still elevated to Apostle status. Were the rest of his quorum so out to lunch they couldn't see his agenda? How did he ever get called to that position, if, as posited elsewhere, callings are truly inspired?

4. He was part of the inner circle, the power elite. His observations about the rest of the circle are very interesting: "Fourth, Lee accuses the LDS hierarchy of, "Pride, arrogance and unrighteous dominion and control which encourages priesthood abuse, induces fear and produces forced obedience," (p. 19).

Fifth, "Love of power, status, position which creates a sense of worship for those in control and power," (p. 19).

The sixth charge is very serious in light of the Mormon's continual boast of no paid clergy. "Love of Money. The rich seem to get richer and the poor get poorer which encourages no sense of responsibility to the poor. In fact you told me to not talk about (the) poor nor pray for them."

5. He addresses the concept of a paid clergy from an angle I've never seen before: ""Our faith, devotion and commitment seemed to be based on being paid to do the work.

"A lot of our Priesthood leaders depend on being paid to attend important priesthood meetings which includes Bishops, branch presidents, district presidents, stake presidents, regional representatives and even general authorities.

"Of course most of these Brethren would go anywhere in the name of `the Lord's work' as long as they are being paid and as long as all of their expenses are being paid."

What is he talking about?

6. Pride is definitely a sticking point with George. Here's what he says about the FP and 12: ""I have heard a few of you declare that you are greater than ancient apostles such as Moses, Abraham, Noah, Isiah (sic), Isaac, Jacob and etc.

"I have heard one of (or) more of you declare that you can change anything Jesus had said or taught," (p. 22)."

Sounds like our Apostles, yup.

7. This website is just a summary of the letter. Does anyone know where the entire letter can be viewed?

Interesting...

Do you have any insight into the following:

The sixth charge is very serious in light of the Mormon's continual boast of no paid clergy. "Love of Money. The rich seem to get richer and the poor get poorer which encourages no sense of responsibility to the poor. In fact you told me to not talk about (the) poor nor pray for them."

Who told him not to mention or pray for the poor?

Thinking that these guys are more intune with God and have more insight into what is true just does not seem to hold water when you give some facts. When they go off into sermons on eternal glory, celestial, etc, you can't test for truth. But when Paul H. Dunn, Richard E. Lyman or George Lee are doing things that should cause the prophet to get some bad vibes it seems bad vibes would be a good indicator that these people have a special witness. Here is what Lyman did for decades without anyone knowing, or people coming forward. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_R._Lyman

Maxrep wrote:Interesting...

Do you have any insight into the following:

The sixth charge is very serious in light of the Mormon's continual boast of no paid clergy. "Love of Money. The rich seem to get richer and the poor get poorer which encourages no sense of responsibility to the poor. In fact you told me to not talk about (the) poor nor pray for them."

Who told him not to mention or pray for the poor?

From what I gathered by reading the website, I think it was the FP and the 12 who told him that. I gathered he brought them up in the discussion too often. Which certainly fits well with today's actions by the same body of leaders.

George P. Lee was never an apostle. he was a 70.

George P. Lee was a looney bird. Almost anything he says should be viewed with considerable skepticism. I suspect that there's a good deal of truth in the charges he makes (e.g., it is perfectly reasonable that the sychophantic praise and adulation the Brethren get might cause some to get rather swelled heads), but unfortunately we are not in a position to determine what is credible and what not.

Interestingly, apologists will immediately pounce on Lee's unreliability and credibility, thus demonstrating their recognition that one's actions speak to their crediblity. Yet when the tables are turned on them and Joseph Smith's actions are used to question his credibility, why, they'll have none of that, thank you.

guy sajer wrote:Interestingly, apologists will immediately pounce on Lee's unreliability and credibility, thus demonstrating their recognition that one's actions speak to their crediblity. Yet when the tables are turned on them and Joseph Smith's actions are used to question his credibility, why, they'll have none of that, thank you.

THAT'S RIGHT! I hadn't thought of the Joseph Smith/George P. Lee angle. What makes it all the more apropos is because George P. Lee also tried to talk underage girls into being his plural wives.

Thanks for the intellectual ammunition. The next time some lame apologist tries to justify Joseph Smith, I'll ask him/her to justify George P. Lee as well.

Thanks for the intellectual ammunition. The next time some lame apologist tries to justify Joseph Smith, I'll ask him/her to justify George P. Lee as well.

Apologists don't care about the douuble-standard. They like it. They need it. They depend on it.

by the way, a good friend of mine was the missionary companion of Lee's son in Puerto Rico during this debacle. He told me it had to do with Lee getting pissed off at Benson for changing some kind of policy or program regarding the "lamanite" Indians. He insisted the lamanites were promised more blessings or something to that effect.

Isn't Lee part American Indian? Maybe he felt like General MacArthur did in the Phillipines. As if he were their savior of some sort, giving them promises he couldn't guarantee.

dartagnan wrote:

Thanks for the intellectual ammunition. The next time some lame apologist tries to justify Joseph Smith, I'll ask him/her to justify George P. Lee as well.

Apologists don't care about the douuble-standard. They like it. They need it. They depend on it.

by the way, a good friend of mine was the missionary companion of Lee's son in Puerto Rico during this debacle. He told me it had to do with Lee getting pissed off at Benson for changing some kind of policy or program regarding the "lamanite" Indians. He insisted the lamanites were promised more blessings or something to that effect.

Isn't Lee part American Indian? Maybe he felt like General MacArthur did in the Phillipines. As if he were their savior of some sort, giving them promises he couldn't guarantee.

Lee is American Indian though I am not sure what type. I think you are correct. I think the disbanding of what Pres Kimball had long championed for the Indians is what triggered his apostasy.

dartagnan wrote:Isn't Lee part American Indian?

He's full American Indian.