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I have often pushed this idea that some people can feel a self-induced testimony if one really wants it to happen.

This phenomenon is common in non-sp[iritual contexts as well. In medicine, doctors call this the placebo effect:

"The physician's belief in the treatment and the patient's faith in the physician exert a mutually reinforcing effect; the result is a powerful remedy that is almost guaranteed to produce an improvement and sometimes a cure."

A perfect example of this would be acupuncture. While medically it is considered a sham, it has resulted in the improvement of health because the patient truly believes in it.

Another example was exhibited on the Chris Angel (mindfreak) show last week, where he took a dozen people and gave them a spiritual "reading" using tarot cards. In preparation, he merely wrote down some things from various fortune cookies and newspaper horoscopes, but he provided the exact same reading for all of the participants. The result was that every single participant walked away with the feeling that he was a psychic. They felt his readings pertained to them in the most intimate details. Why? Because of the placebo effect.

Not much critical thinking occurs here, but the end result is good feelings because ultimately, that is what the body wants.

I submit that the phenomenon of the Mormon testimony is not much different.

dartagnan wrote:Not much critical thinking occurs here, but the end result is good feelings because ultimately, that is what the body wants.

I submit that the phenomenon of the Mormon testimony is not much different.

This is what I make of religion in general.

Well for me, I cannot wrap my mind around the notion that we are here due to a big bang, and that the beauty of the universe is just an accident.

It has intelligent design written all over its face, as far as I can see, and when atheists try to explain to me why it isn't, I find them engaging in the same kind of cognitive processes exhibited by the apologists.

I guess they just have faith that the big bang (or whatever theory they fancy) ocurred.

dartagnan wrote:I guess they just have faith that the big bang (or whatever theory they fancy) ocurred.

Actually I think they are relying on scientific models, which aren't precisely the same thing as faith in unfounded religious propositions.

dartagnan wrote:I have often pushed this idea that some people can feel a self-induced testimony if one really wants it to happen..

..Not much critical thinking occurs here, but the end result is good feelings because ultimately, that is what the body wants.

I think you are right in some cases from new members to general authorities. But this has not been my personal experience:

Well, I can't explain it, but I had spiritual experiences within the church. I witnessed miracles firsthand. I was instantly healed in several instances. For some of us in my family circle spiritual healing was just simply part of life. I healed others as well. I realize that most all of the home teachers, EQP's, bishops and even some Stake Presidents didn't believe in this stuff and were very timid in their approach to blessings. You could tell by the "priesthood" blessings they would give. I was never healed by one of these guys. In the last several years, stake patriarchs were not much different for our children. The blessings always included words like "might", "may" and "we ask" rather than commanding in the name of God.

I was also privy to personal spiritual manifestations that guided me out of trouble or simply gave me peace and comfort. There were a few times where they came by specificly asking for an answer. Other times they came out of the blue - unrequested, so to speak.

Every positive instance above were few and far between - but they did happen.

But I also felt very much "guided" when I was "in tune" while teaching or even conversing with others. I would literally have "strokes of genius" where I could say the right thing to bring comfort or instruction. I could literally tell when I did not have it - particularly upon reflection. I had this "companionship" more often than not.

All of the above experiences (as well as practicing love, kindness, repentance, forgiveness and studying from good books) gave me clues that led me to believe the church was true.

I feel betrayed because God allowed me to believe in the one part that was a facade. And because I have caught on, I have felt abandoned and adrift for the past 2 or so years from the above good experiences. My desire is to hold to truth and reject the lies. There is much to sort out before I regain my peace.

Self reinforced delusion? Hell Yes.

Mercury wrote:Self reinforced delusion? Hell Yes.

I have not seen the wind, but I am willing to believe it exists. I don't see this as much different. Unless, of course, you're saying that the wind doesn't exist either?

Inconceivable wrote:The blessings always included words like "might", "may" and "we ask" rather than commanding in the name of God.

So let me get this straight...

God is sitting up on His cloud, listening to the blessing. All is in order. The oil was administered properly, the recipient has sufficient faith and the 2 brethern are worthy priesthood holders. He has His healing fingers ready to go, but at the last second, pulls back and denies the blessing because they said "might", "may" or "we ask" instead of commanding the blessing??

It's amazing how many ways a blessing can fail, and none of it is ever God's fault.

harmony wrote:

Mercury wrote:Self reinforced delusion? Hell Yes.

I have not seen the wind, but I am willing to believe it exists. I don't see this as much different. Unless, of course, you're saying that the wind doesn't exist either?

On boards, at times I am dumbfounded as to how to respond to such dull uninformed stuff you'd hear from eurotrash. You know, that content that devolves into discussion of the quantum background via The Secret and other such nonsensical s***.

Mercury wrote:

harmony wrote:

Mercury wrote:Self reinforced delusion? Hell Yes.

I have not seen the wind, but I am willing to believe it exists. I don't see this as much different. Unless, of course, you're saying that the wind doesn't exist either?

On boards, at times I am dumbfounded as to how to respond to such dull uninformed stuff you'd hear from eurotrash. You know, that content that devolves into discussion of the quantum background via The Secret and other such nonsensical s***.

In other words, you have no real answer to Inconceivable's spiritual manifestations, except to say if it can't be seen, it doesn't exist. C'mon, Merc! You can do better than that!