DiscussMormonism.com

The apologists over on FAIR have decided that the Prophet of the Mormon Corporation is no longer a spokesman for God.

Since the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct? Most "contradictions" are actually misunderstandings or misrepresentations of LDS doctrine and teachings by critics. The LDS standard for doctrine is the scriptures, and united statements of the First Presidency and the Twelve.

Misunderstandings? Misrepresentations? Can you show us dear apologists how when Brigham Young spouted off racist doctrine, he was misunderstood? Or he was misrepresented by critics of the Cult? When he created the Adam God Doctrine - was he just misunderstood?

On August 17, 1951, the First Presidency issued the following "Official Statement":

"The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the pre-mortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality, and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the principle itself indicates that the coming to this earth and taking on mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintained their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes....."

I don't misunderstand that at all. I see no misrepresentation at all.

FAIR goes on:

The Saints believe they must be led by revelation, adapted to the circumstances in which they now find themselves.
No member is expected to follow prophetic advice "just because the prophet said so." Each member is to receive his or her own revelatory witness from the Holy Ghost. We cannot be led astray in matters of importance if we always appeal to God for His direction.

So FAIR now contradicts Mormon Doctrine And Covenants Section 1:38:

"What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be bfulfilled..."

"... whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

So according to cannozied Mormon Scriptures, every member is expected to follow the prophetic advice, regardless of what the prophet says.

Interesting that FAIR contradicts itself on the very same page.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Don't Go Astray
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
He'll Lead the Way

"When the Prophet has spoken, the thinking has been done."

FAIR needs to stop telling the Mormons to not follow the prophet. They are contradicting cannonized scripture and leading the Mormons into apostacy.

Which MA&Dite is saying this?

Of course, is a member prays and receives CONTRADICTORY information than the prophet, we all know who's wrong. They must not have prayed right, or maybe weren't worthy.

So the bit about praying for confirmation is nothing but frill.

Dr. Shades wrote:Which MA&Dite is saying this?

This is from FAIR's "Answers to Anti-Mormons".

beastie wrote:Of course, is a member prays and receives CONTRADICTORY information than the prophet, we all know who's wrong. They must not have prayed right, or maybe weren't worthy.

So the bit about praying for confirmation is nothing but frill.

The reason we pray for confirmation is that then we KNOW and not just think that the words are from God. A person can sometimes be talked out of a position they only think maybe is right. When you KNOW then you can't be deceived or deluded away from the truth.

Oh, yes, and just to clarify something. The Holy Ghost does not give CONTRADICTORY information. The Holy Ghost confirms or does not confirm. Beastie, I am sure you taught "the stupor of thought" concept.

The reason we pray for confirmation is that then we KNOW and not just think that the words are from God. A person can sometimes be talked out of a position they only think maybe is right. When you KNOW then you can't be deceived or deluded away from the truth.

Oh, yes, and just to clarify something. The Holy Ghost does not give CONTRADICTORY information. The Holy Ghost confirms or does not confirm. Beastie, I am sure you taught "the stupor of thought" concept.

Exactly my point. The underlying assumption is that what the prophet is teaching is, actually, correct and God-given, and the point of praying is simply to strengthen the resolve of the member. The purpose of prayer is NOT to really find out whether or not what the prophet is teaching is correct at all, because the possibility that the prophet is wrong cannot exist.

Yes, I'm familiar with the "stupor of thought". It's what I felt each time I prayed and asked if Joseph Smith was a true prophet, and whether the church is, indeed, the "one true church", the sole church with the authority of JC to perform saving ordinances.

But each time I share that, believers - including you - parse and pick at my experience, determined to demonstrate how I was simply wrong. I didn't pray right, I wasn't sincere, or I bugged God by praying over and over (your unique suggestion on MAD), or I just had to wait longer, etc etc etc..... it is VERY obvious that a "NO" answer in regards to the church's claims is not possible, according to believers, so the purpose of prayer is NOT to find out whether or not something is true -

it is to give God the opportunity to tell YOU personally that the true thing is true.

Those are two very different concepts.

charity wrote:

beastie wrote:Of course, is a member prays and receives CONTRADICTORY information than the prophet, we all know who's wrong. They must not have prayed right, or maybe weren't worthy.

So the bit about praying for confirmation is nothing but frill.

The reason we pray for confirmation is that then we KNOW and not just think that the words are from God. A person can sometimes be talked out of a position they only think maybe is right. When you KNOW then you can't be deceived or deluded away from the truth.

Oh, yes, and just to clarify something. The Holy Ghost does not give CONTRADICTORY information. The Holy Ghost confirms or does not confirm. Beastie, I am sure you taught "the stupor of thought" concept.

And you miss the entire point, Charity. If a Prophet says "multiple earrings are wrong", and a member doesn't get that special sensation under their nipples, well, it is the member's fault.

The Cult will never be at fault.

Infymus wrote:

charity wrote:

beastie wrote:Of course, is a member prays and receives CONTRADICTORY information than the prophet, we all know who's wrong. They must not have prayed right, or maybe weren't worthy.

So the bit about praying for confirmation is nothing but frill.

The reason we pray for confirmation is that then we KNOW and not just think that the words are from God. A person can sometimes be talked out of a position they only think maybe is right. When you KNOW then you can't be deceived or deluded away from the truth.

Oh, yes, and just to clarify something. The Holy Ghost does not give CONTRADICTORY information. The Holy Ghost confirms or does not confirm. Beastie, I am sure you taught "the stupor of thought" concept.

And you miss the entire point, Charity. If a Prophet says "multiple earrings are wrong", and a member doesn't get that special sensation under their nipples, well, it is the member's fault.

The Cult will never be at fault.

Your philosophy is as off base as your anatomy.

Your philosophy is as off base as your anatomy.

Charity, this is exactly the philosophy you just expressed to me.

You said:

The reason we pray for confirmation is that then we KNOW and not just think that the words are from God. A person can sometimes be talked out of a position they only think maybe is right. When you KNOW then you can't be deceived or deluded away from the truth.

Oh, yes, and just to clarify something. The Holy Ghost does not give CONTRADICTORY information. The Holy Ghost confirms or does not confirm. Beastie, I am sure you taught "the stupor of thought" concept.

The entire point is not that God may possibly tell the individual that the prophet is WRONG. The point is that God wants to give the member the opportunity to KNOW the prophet is right, and not just "think" he's right.

Not only have you just expressed this theory, but in practice, this is how the theory is constantly applied. If someone receives "revelation" saying the prophet is WRONG, then something went wrong with how that member prayed, or what that member did. This demonstrates that infymus' summary is correct.

Exactly. Your personal revelation is only as good as its conformity to the leader and his group revelation powers.