Charity's view of how a prophet receives revelation

[_Sethbag]

Charity has said this quite a few times since she started posting here. In other thread Jersey Girl called attention to this. I'd been thinking about posting about this too, so after Jersey Girl's comments I figured I'd start a new thread for this.

Charity has basically said that God will not reveal something to his prophet until the prophet asks a specific question about it.

Charity has said that God will not give someone a different answer than they ask for, but he'll just say yes or no to whatever question was asked.

If I'm misstating her positions, I invite Charity to respond and set the record straight.

It sounds to me as if Charity is imposing a very restricted view of prophecy and revelation that most TBMs would not agree with. She's been very forceful in saying that God simply will not say jack squat to a Prophet about something without that Prophet first going to God in prayer and asking about that specific thing first. I don't think this view can be justified through LDS doctrine or scriptures.

Charity, what say you? How do you back up this notion you keep bringing up?

[_guy sajer]

Charity has said this quite a few times since she started posting here. In other thread Jersey Girl called attention to this. I'd been thinking about posting about this too, so after Jersey Girl's comments I figured I'd start a new thread for this.

Charity has basically said that God will not reveal something to his prophet until the prophet asks a specific question about it.

Charity has said that God will not give someone a different answer than they ask for, but he'll just say yes or no to whatever question was asked.

If I'm misstating her positions, I invite Charity to respond and set the record straight.

It sounds to me as if Charity is imposing a very restricted view of prophecy and revelation that most TBMs would not agree with. She's been very forceful in saying that God simply will not say jack squat to a Prophet about something without that Prophet first going to God in prayer and asking about that specific thing first. I don't think this view can be justified through LDS doctrine or scriptures.

Charity, what say you? How do you back up this notion you keep bringing up?

If Charity is correct, then, can we infer that Joseph Smith was earnestly praying for an excuse to screw other women?

[_Jersey Girl]

Sethbag.

I'm sorry if I'm prematurely derailing the thread but charity's comments make God out to be some sort of Magic 8 Ball. I would like to see how she squares the "ask the question" comment with Biblical scripture.

Jersey Girl

[_Moniker]

I want to know what the pressing concern was with earrings?

[_Mercury]

I want to know what the pressing concern was with earrings?

Further subjugation of women

[_personage]

Sometimes it starts with the BYU athletic director going to the prophet and then the prophet going to God as was the case around 1977 or so.

[_charity]

The following is a list of scriptural passages which indicate that the need to ASK.

D&C 8: 1
1 Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily, I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer, even so surely shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith

D&C 14: 5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.


D&C 42: 3 For verily I say, as ye have assembled yourselves together according to the commandment wherewith I commanded you, and are agreed as touching this one thing, and have asked the Father in my name, even so ye shall receive.

D&C 42: 61 If thou shalt ask, thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, bknowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the cmysteries and dpeaceable things—that which bringeth ejoy, that which bringeth life eternal.

D&C 103: 31 Behold this is my will; ask and ye shall receive; but men do anot always do my will.

1 Ne. 15: Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said?—If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in bfaith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you.

3 Ne. 16: 4
4 And I command you that ye shall awrite these sayings after I am gone, that if it so be that my people at Jerusalem, they who have seen me and been with me in my ministry, do not ask the Father in my name, that they may receive a knowledge of you by the Holy Ghost, and also of the other tribes whom they know not of, that these sayings which ye shall write shall be kept and shall be manifested unto the bGentiles, that through the fulness of the Gentiles, the remnant of their seed, who shall be scattered forth upon the face of the earth because of their cunbelief, may be brought in, or may be brought to a dknowledge of me, their Redeemer.

Moro. 10: 4
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having eaith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

D&C 18: Ask the Father in my name, in faith believing that you shall receive, and you shall have the Holy Ghost, which manifesteth all things which are expedient unto the children of men.


And then of course there is this one:

Doctrine and Covenants 9: 7-8 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

Oh, yes. Joseph wasn't just taking a walk through the trees and God hit him with a lightning bolt. Joseph was ASKING.


And for the crude among you, Joseph was ASKING about plural marriage in the Old Testament when he was given the answer. Just shows you better be careful what you ask about.

[_guy sajer]

The following is a list of scriptural passages which indicate that the need to ASK.

D&C 8: 1
1 Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily, I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer, even so surely shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith

D&C 14: 5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.


D&C 42: 3 For verily I say, as ye have assembled yourselves together according to the commandment wherewith I commanded you, and are agreed as touching this one thing, and have asked the Father in my name, even so ye shall receive.

D&C 42: 61 If thou shalt ask, thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, bknowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the cmysteries and dpeaceable things—that which bringeth ejoy, that which bringeth life eternal.

D&C 103: 31 Behold this is my will; ask and ye shall receive; but men do anot always do my will.

1 Ne. 15: Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said?—If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in bfaith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you.

3 Ne. 16: 4
4 And I command you that ye shall awrite these sayings after I am gone, that if it so be that my people at Jerusalem, they who have seen me and been with me in my ministry, do not ask the Father in my name, that they may receive a knowledge of you by the Holy Ghost, and also of the other tribes whom they know not of, that these sayings which ye shall write shall be kept and shall be manifested unto the bGentiles, that through the fulness of the Gentiles, the remnant of their seed, who shall be scattered forth upon the face of the earth because of their cunbelief, may be brought in, or may be brought to a dknowledge of me, their Redeemer.

Moro. 10: 4
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having eaith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

D&C 18: Ask the Father in my name, in faith believing that you shall receive, and you shall have the Holy Ghost, which manifesteth all things which are expedient unto the children of men.


And then of course there is this one:

Doctrine and Covenants 9: 7-8 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

Oh, yes. Joseph wasn't just taking a walk through the trees and God hit him with a lightning bolt. Joseph was ASKING.


And for the crude among you, Joseph was ASKING about plural marriage in the Old Testament when he was given the answer. Just shows you better be careful what you ask about.

And yet, there are also multiple instances in Holy Scripture in which persons receive revelation WITHOUT asking.

None of the scriptures quoted state that asking is a necessary condition for receiving revelation. Given the many instances of receiving without asking, one more approporiately concludes that asking CAN lead to receiving (though in many cases it fails), but that asking is not NECESSARY for receiving.

I'm sure Joseph was just crushed,

Joseph: "Dear God, I read in the Old Testament that Abraham banged many women besides his wife. How was this so?"

God: "My dear Joseph, I God gave Abraham the many women so that he might bang them. Behold, I am now restoring this principle to you. You too can bang as many women as you want, yeah verily, even the comely, not-quite-so-buxom young lassies, and be free of any accountability for , and I'll force your wife to accept it, or threaten to destroy her. The field is white and ready for the thrusting in of sickle."

Joseph: "You mean I can have unlimited sex with unlimited numbers of women and actually get away with it scott free?'

God: "That is correct, my son, for verily thus sayeth the Lord God, even the great I Am, thou mayest bang at they heart's content."

Joseph: "Hot damn . . . er, I mean , damn."

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Actually this does start to make sense when you realize how far the church is behind society on many issues. I'm sure the prophets didn't even think of asking about blacks having the priesthood until they witnessed the Civil Rights movement, and started getting pressed on it by outside forces. Usually the church doesn't think to change until the outside world suggests it might be a good idea. It happened with polygamy, too. "You mean polygamy is a bad idea? Hmm, let's check with the lord. Holy heck, it is!" The lord doesn't step in and make suggestions, he waits for the prophets to figure it out first, then ask him, and as history has shown, the prophets are a little slow. Remember when GBH talked about how racism was bad at GC just a couple years ago? Another example of the prophet being several years behind society.

[_Scottie]

Lets say that both the Prophet and The Pope wonder what God's will is on how many piercings a woman should have.

Both of them kneel in prayer and ask God what His will is.

By LDS definition, all prayers are answered, and the Holy Ghost must confirm truth no matter who is asking. Regardless of religious affiliation.

So, both GBH and The Pope will receive the EXACT SAME spiritual confirmation that God's will is for women to wear 1 pair of earrings.

Now, explain to me how the LDS prophet has any kind of greater clarity in leading the membership than The Pope?