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Scottie wrote:This question is mainly for the non-Christian crowd here. We will start with the assumption that the Bible is composed simply of the words of men. That the concept of God was a mixture of myth, ancient God's morphed into the Old Testament God, and someone that could be used to manipulate and control the uneducated masses.

Huckelberry; I do not think there is much likelyhood that the Old Testament was created to control uneduacated masses. It could be seen as created to try and control the king by the masses. It can be seen as a rally point for on group strugglign to exist and excell in a compitition with other unfriendly groups. It could be seen as creating a social cohesion for a group. I might even thnk it is designed to retrojustify a bloody war of conquest. I do think controlling uneducated masses is anachronistic.
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Now, when we think of the God of the Old Testament, we think of wrath and cruelty and...well, a God not dissimilar to the Greek Gods. Full of vengeance and anger, with unlimited power, yet almost impossible to please. Someone that would strike fear and dread into the hearts of the followers.

Huckelberry: There are several things I find puzzling about this. First I can see the God image in the Old Testament as harsh and demanding and reserved in mercy. I find a good bit of difficulty seeing similarities to the greek gods. They seemed more inclined to enjoy war without putting painful moral strings attatched to military success. The Old Testament God helps one group then demands the group to not be like the group they destroyed. If Isreal is to destroy Cannan because of
Cannans evil they better not end being the same. Would the would the Greek Gods get involved in something like that?

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Then Jesus comes on the scene. He is seen as a character of infinite kindness and goodness. Someone the masses could relate to. The big brother that is going to stand up to the abusive father for us.

Huckelberry; First thing to note is that for the Jews Jesus did not replace anybody. The Jews have continued to believe the Old Testament god and see Jesus as another Jewish thinker. It was people loosing faith in Greek gods who found Jesus a point of faith. One possible reason for this may be that the Jews for some reason already believe the Old Testament god to be of infinite kindness and goodness. It is possible that Greeks had some doubts about Zeus good will.
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I wonder if the idea of the Old Testament God was just not working with the people. Was Jesus invented as a sort of mediator between God and man. Was the Old Testament God just too cruel to use effectively, so they had to create his counterpart? Someone that the people could relate to, yet still worship, all without losing the power of the religion they had built?

Huckelberry: Same problem appears. The Jesus story starts with Jews and the Jews for the by far larger part stayed with the belief in the Old Testament god and declined to follow Jesus. It is possible that Jesus story opend the window to a universalising picture of Gods relationship to the world. That would have appealed to nonJews who had some distrust of Jewish militant seperateness.

Moniker wrote:Hmm... yanno what my mother says about Jesus? She says that after God had a child that he softened up naturally as all parents do.

Then Jesus comes on the scene. He is seen as a character of infinite kindness and goodness. Someone the masses could relate to. The big brother that is going to stand up to the abusive father for us.

Scottie wrote:This question is mainly for the non-Christian crowd here. We will start with the assumption that the Bible is composed simply of the words of men. That the concept of God was a mixture of myth, ancient God's morphed into the Old Testament God, and someone that could be used to manipulate and control the uneducated masses.

Now, when we think of the God of the Old Testament, we think of wrath and cruelty and...well, a God not dissimilar to the Greek Gods. Full of vengeance and anger, with unlimited power, yet almost impossible to please. Someone that would strike fear and dread into the hearts of the followers.

Then Jesus comes on the scene. He is seen as a character of infinite kindness and goodness. Someone the masses could relate to. The big brother that is going to stand up to the abusive father for us.

I wonder if the idea of the Old Testament God was just not working with the people. Was Jesus invented as a sort of mediator between God and man. Was the Old Testament God just too cruel to use effectively, so they had to create his counterpart? Someone that the people could relate to, yet still worship, all without losing the power of the religion they had built?

Ray A wrote:

Moniker wrote:Hmm... yanno what my mother says about Jesus? She says that after God had a child that he softened up naturally as all parents do.

I think that explanation takes the cake. 200 years of Biblical scholarship could not think this up.