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This is from another thread, but I thought it deserved its own discussion. charity repeated a folk doctrine that I have heard many times but that does not square with the scriptures. Here it is and my response:

charity wrote:Our view, of course, is that the atonement provides for us what we can't provide for ourselves. But that we are required to do all we can. It is by grace we are saved AFTER all we can do. Proving ourselves worthy is that "all we can do."

That is most certainly not LDS doctrine. We are saved by grace, after all we can do. And what we can do is virtually nothing. In fact, the Book of Mormon reminds us of our "nothingness." The way you describe it, people work their butts off to prove themselves worthy, and then the Atonement makes up the difference, as if it's the cherry on top of a sundae we made with our own hands.

Imagine a situation where two people get baptized the same day. The one guy spends the rest of his life in the church, fulfilling his callings, serving in leadership positions, serving a mission, getting married in the temple, and doing everything to the best of his ability.

The other person is killed in a car accident on the way home from the baptism. No mission, no temple marriage, no callings. But that person has just as much a right to exaltation as the other guy. So it wasn't works with the Atonement making up the difference. It was the Atonement that saved them both.

For better or worse, I would still like to believe in God and Jesus, and this idea of proving one's self worthy of heaven has always been foreign to me.

There is certainly some biblical support for "all we can do is nothing":

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

I liken the grace of God to food pouring down. Choosing to use it (keeping commandments etc.) is just making sure my bowl is right side up to catch it. I produced none of the food and deserve none of it. I just wanted it and planned how to get it.

The Nehor wrote:I liken the grace of God to food pouring down. Choosing to use it (keeping commandments etc.) is just making sure my bowl is right side up to catch it. I produced none of the food and deserve none of it. I just wanted it and planned how to get it.

Well, according to charity, you have to make the bowl and then painstakingly prepare the food, and then God will let you eat if you did it right.

Runtu wrote:

The Nehor wrote:I liken the grace of God to food pouring down. Choosing to use it (keeping commandments etc.) is just making sure my bowl is right side up to catch it. I produced none of the food and deserve none of it. I just wanted it and planned how to get it.

Well, according to charity, you have to make the bowl and then painstakingly prepare the food, and then God will let you eat if you did it right.

If that is what she said then I think she is wrong. I hope she chimes in though.

I have always been mystified at the disconnect between the "grace only" group and the scriptures.

Follow me.
Keep my commandments.
Love one anotrher.
Do good.
Serve your fellowman.
Be baptized.

Aren't these things "something?"

Edit to add this to runtu, who said, "Well, according to charity, you have to make the bowl and then painstakingly prepare the food, and then God will let you eat if you did it right."

That isn't what I said at all. I like Nehor's comment. It just takes a lot of work to keep your bowl right side up. Satan is always tipping your bowl over. And those who don't bother to try to get the bowl upright again, miss out.

charity wrote:I have always been mystified at the disconnect between the "grace only" group and the scriptures.

Follow me.
Keep my commandments.
Love one anotrher.
Do good.
Serve your fellowman.
Be baptized.

Aren't these things "something?"

I am not a "grace only" Christian. I don't know where you get that idea. But salvation in the celestial kingdom is not a product of our works. According to the Bible Dictionary, grace enables the works; you have it as our works making grace possible. That is, frankly, blasphemy.

Edit to add this to runtu, who said, "Well, according to charity, you have to make the bowl and then painstakingly prepare the food, and then God will let you eat if you did it right."

That isn't what I said at all. I like Nehor's comment. It just takes a lot of work to keep your bowl right side up. Satan is always tipping your bowl over. And those who don't bother to try to get the bowl upright again, miss out.

You said we have to prove ourselves worthy, and then Jesus makes up the difference. That's completely backwards.

I think it is interesting that the words Jesus says about "bearing fruit" result in those things the law required in the first place - namely, to love:

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Since Jesus says we are to obey his command, and his command is to love, but we are to abide in him to bear fruit, and the fruit of the Spirit is love, then it looks to me like the works we do are actually him doing them in us.

He even said something similar:

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Johannine theology in its most simple form.

What really blows my mind is the verse in 1 John 4 where we're told that God is love.

Runtu wrote:

charity wrote:I have always been mystified at the disconnect between the "grace only" group and the scriptures.

Follow me.
Keep my commandments.
Love one anotrher.
Do good.
Serve your fellowman.
Be baptized.

Aren't these things "something?"

I am not a "grace only" Christian. I don't know where you get that idea. But salvation in the celestial kingdom is not a product of our works. According to the Bible Dictionary, grace enables the works; you have it as our works making grace possible. That is, frankly, blasphemy.

Edit to add this to runtu, who said, "Well, according to charity, you have to make the bowl and then painstakingly prepare the food, and then God will let you eat if you did it right."

That isn't what I said at all. I like Nehor's comment. It just takes a lot of work to keep your bowl right side up. Satan is always tipping your bowl over. And those who don't bother to try to get the bowl upright again, miss out.

You said we have to prove ourselves worthy, and then Jesus makes up the difference. That's completely backwards.

You might want to check out James 2.

And then there is 2 Ne. 25: 23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

So in your scheme, Jesus choses us (for reasons of His own) to receive His grace. Then we do good works, not of our own will, but because of this grace. So the wicked aren't accountable because they could have done good if only Jesus had chosen them?

The Nehor wrote:I liken the grace of God to food pouring down. Choosing to use it (keeping commandments etc.) is just making sure my bowl is right side up to catch it. I produced none of the food and deserve none of it. I just wanted it and planned how to get it.

Sorry, Nehor, that analogy doesn't work very well with me. Even the dufus who puts his bowl upside down is going to still get food. It may be scattered and a little difficult to consume, but he is nonetheless an equal recipient of the food.

Or are you saying if you don't get the bowl right, the dogs'll eat your grace?

;)