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I was intrigued by Gadianton's references, on another thread, to a quote from SWK:

It has been said that many of the great artists were perverts or moral degenerates. In spite of their immorality they became great and celebrated artists. What could be the result if discovery were made of equal talent in men who were clean and free from the vices, and thus entitled to revelations?

Some people have observed that there is a dearth of good art in Mormonism, which doesn't seem to make sense given the LDS Church's history, and the various conflicts Mormons have faced over the years. I have to wonder what the reasons are behind this. Certainly, Kimball's quote seems to have some bearing on this, at least in the realm of the dramatic and narrative arts. Two of the best contemporary LDS narrative artists---Neil LaBute and Brian Evensen---both wound up having to resign/disfellowshipped, since their plumbing of the dark half of human experience was seen as "taboo."

Further, I cannot help but feel that Kimball's remarks smack of propaganda, and of the sorts of declarations that were issued by the leaders of totalitarian regimes. The operas written by and for Kim Jon Il, for example, or Soviet Social Realism---i.e., artistic works based primarily on ideological purpose, rather than mimesis, or some other aesthetic goal.

It seems to me that the narrative and dramatic arts in particular have labored under an intense freight in Mormonism. Where are our great authors, our LDS Shakespeares? (And no: I don't think that Orson Scott Card counts. Sorry.) Wasn't is Eugene England who said that the first great LDS writer would be ex'ed from the Church?

Another interesting tidbit: DCP once got quite huffy when I accused him of having "Brethren-sanctioned" tastes in art. But, then again, he never mentions the more controversial aspects of art when he's discussing his faves. I.e., where is the Philip Roth, or the James Joyce? Probably, it is all too dirty, and needs to be consigned to Vaughn Featherstone's list of vices to be purged.

I guess my main question is: Is there any room in the Church for broad, creative, dramatic expression?

Last friday I was sick and getting sicker and it was gloomy and rainy - so I thought I would lift my spirit and looked for a museum to visit. I picked the Norton Simon in Passadena. I had been once before but this time it was really inspiring and something I needed. Of course there were a lot paintings from the elite painters of the world that are just fantastic. There were a lot of nudes and the Mormon in me thought should there be some type of warning sign for kids - it flashed through my mind for a second - and then I set it aside, thinking you create more problems than you solve, at least with males.


This is the museum website:

http://www.nortonsimon.org/

Another little point along these lines...

Our universe has largely missed the creative/artistic talents of women. While today throughout the world, more and more women are getting (and taking), the opportunity to be educated, and study the arts, we still have a long way to go.

I wonder if the command for women to stay at home, not limit children, raise a family, and support her husband in many ways thwarts the talents and creative energy of many women?

I have no statistics, just wondering.

:-)

~dancer~

Mister Scratch wrote:I guess my main question is: Is there any room in the Church for broad, creative, dramatic expression?

I find your post extremely disappointing.
When was the last time you visited Church Art Museum?
And by any chance have you seen BKP's mock bird collections?
They took Minerva Teichert's paintings to create room for him.

Great thread, Scratch. I have been thinking about LDS music, but am not yet prepared for a write up yet. I will note for now that one of my parents is a very good artist and has many art connections in Utah. My parents are uber-TBMs, they are a Chapel Mormon's Chapel Mormons. There is no LDS paintings in their home (though a couple stock temple photos) all religious paintings are from artists of other faiths. And other than MoTab, they don't listen to Mormon music. A uber-TBM sibling who is a very good musician in practice and academically has to my knowledge, only ever found one LDS composer she likes.

Further, I cannot help but feel that Kimball's remarks smack of propaganda, and of the sorts of declarations that were issued by the leaders of totalitarian regimes.

Yes, very much so. And there is quite a bit of Mormon family pressure on children to excel in music. Does it all end at a call to ward chorister?

Another interesting tidbit: DCP once got quite huffy when I accused him of having "Brethren-sanctioned" tastes in art.

What art does he like that isn't approved (or would unlikely be approved) by the brethren?

Don't you think it's because only art that appeals to the Brethren is okay... to be printed in the Ensign, to be sold in the bookstore, to be hung on LDS family home walls? And their tastes are plebian at best.

Good art pushes boundaries. This is the antithesis of Mormonism.

Scratch speaks ill of the writer of Ender's Game. He should be shot.

There's no room in the Church for broad, creative, dramatic expression of the type you describe. Amongst the members, sure, why not? You accused DCP of having "brethren-sanctioned" tastes but I can't remember the last time the Brethren recommended a reading list, movies to view, plays to see, art to appreciate, etc. Where is this sanctioning? I seek out what I like, what inspires, and what gets me thinking.

The Nehor wrote:Scratch speaks ill of the writer of Ender's Game. He should be shot.

There's no room in the Church for broad, creative, dramatic expression of the type you describe. Amongst the members, sure, why not? You accused DCP of having "brethren-sanctioned" tastes but I can't remember the last time the Brethren recommended a reading list, movies to view, plays to see, art to appreciate, etc. Where is this sanctioning? I seek out what I like, what inspires, and what gets me thinking.

Sure they have. It's called "nothing R rated, and even PG 13 is pushing it". And they surely don't like ancient statues, at least not of John the Baptist.

What rock have you been hiding under?

harmony wrote:

The Nehor wrote:Scratch speaks ill of the writer of Ender's Game. He should be shot.

There's no room in the Church for broad, creative, dramatic expression of the type you describe. Amongst the members, sure, why not? You accused DCP of having "brethren-sanctioned" tastes but I can't remember the last time the Brethren recommended a reading list, movies to view, plays to see, art to appreciate, etc. Where is this sanctioning? I seek out what I like, what inspires, and what gets me thinking.

Sure they have. It's called "nothing R rated, and even PG 13 is pushing it". And they surely don't like ancient statues, at least not of John the Baptist.

What rock have you been hiding under?

So, some counsel on some movies (that hasn't been repeated in years) and not liking one statue makes us Philistines.