DiscussMormonism.com

I listened to a Mormonstories podcast of a talk given by Mike Quinn I think shortly after he was ex'd. It was a interesting talk.

I am not sure what he believes now. But then he stated:

1; He believes Joseph Smith was a prophet and was a prophet in exactly the same way Moses was a prophet. He has a testimony that Joseph Smith did see God face to face.

2: He believe the Book of Mormon is true, historical and that the gold plates were as real and literal as the stone tablets Moses got for the ten commandments

Please note he said that he in not playing word games. He believes and has a testimony of these things.

3: He has a testimony that the LDS Church is a restoration and has God's authority on the earth.

Among other things he relates that when he siad he struggled with aspirations in the Church to be a leader and apostle. When he was young he had some very spiritual experiences that led him and others to conclude that God may call him to such a high position. He was bothered by such aspirations and at one point, when he was with Spencer Kimball, who was the Pres of the 12, he confessed his aspirations and asked Pres Kimball to help him do away wioth such prideful desires. Pres Kimball offered him a blessing. In the blessing Pres Kimball promised that Quinn would be called as an apostle. Then Pres Kimball told him not to worrty or pine away about it and keep it to himself.

He also tells of his interview with Elder Packer when he started working as a history professor and BYU. Elder Packer said he did not like historians and that historians wanted to tell all the truth and that true things that were hurtful or put the Church in bad light should not be told. Quinn said he told Packer that he did not agree and that the truth should be told and presented in ways that could help members avoid running into it in poorly presented critical materials. Elder Packer said to Quinn "Well, you will learn." Quinn said "And I did."

Thanks for posting this, Jason. As I have said before, Quinn is one of the most valuable historians that the Church has ever had. Thanks to his honesty and professional standards, we have works that paint a fuller picture of Mormonism than we otherwise would have had. I think your post also shows how a smear campaign was set up, following the dictates of BKP. This passage is especially noteworthy, in my opinion:

He also tells of his interview with Elder Packer when he started working as a history professor and BYU. Elder Packer said he did not like historians and that historians wanted to tell all the truth and that true things that were hurtful or put the Church in bad light should not be told. Quinn said he told Packer that he did not agree and that the truth should be told and presented in ways that could help members avoid running into it in poorly presented critical materials. Elder Packer said to Quinn "Well, you will learn." Quinn said "And I did."

Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling appeared well after Quinn's books did, and I think it's fair to say that Quinn's "unflattering" history paved the way for more truthful accounts from some of the more "lockstep" LDS historians.

And he fell and great was the fall thereof. Hey, can I say my experiences should lead me to be an Apostle?

Quinn is definitely a puzzle. He produces some of the most damning material about the Church, is mistreated and subject to all sorts of character assassination, continues to be blackballed and by all accounts is still a believer.

go figure.

John

The Nehor wrote:And he fell and great was the fall thereof. Hey, can I say my experiences should lead me to be an Apostate?

Corrected to fix your typo.


Kidding...


...maybe.

John Larsen wrote:Quinn is definitely a puzzle. He produces some of the most damning material about the Church, is mistreated and subject to all sorts of character assassination, continues to be blackballed and by all accounts is still a believer.

go figure.

John

I'm not really sure I believe that he's really a believer. I agree that some of his material is really damning to the church. He'd have to have multiple personality disorder or something. The sense I get from things I've read from Quinn is that the church is a manmade institution. Have you read Origins of Power? If you don't come away from that book thinking "man, this church sure looks like a manmade institution" there's something certifiably wrong with you.

Jason Bourne wrote:I listened to a Mormonstories podcast of a talk given by Mike Quinn I think shortly after he was ex'd. It was a interesting talk.

I am not sure what he believes now. But then he stated:

1; He believes Joseph Smith was a prophet and was a prophet in exactly the same way Moses was a prophet. He has a testimony that Joseph Smith did see God face to face.

2: He believe the Book of Mormon is true, historical and that the gold plates were as real and literal as the stone tablets Moses got for the ten commandments

Please note he said that he in not playing word games. He believes and has a testimony of these things.

3: He has a testimony that the LDS Church is a restoration and has God's authority on the earth.

It certainly weird that the guy who said all those things is the same guy who writes books that are critical of Mormonism. On those comments alone you'd think he'd be an honored member of the Mormon church.

Too bad he's gay right?

Sethbag wrote:

John Larsen wrote:Quinn is definitely a puzzle. He produces some of the most damning material about the Church, is mistreated and subject to all sorts of character assassination, continues to be blackballed and by all accounts is still a believer.

go figure.

John

I'm not really sure I believe that he's really a believer. I agree that some of his material is really damning to the church. He'd have to have multiple personality disorder or something. The sense I get from things I've read from Quinn is that the church is a manmade institution. Have you read Origins of Power?

Quinn has said that he views Joseph Smith and other LDS leaders as flawed, very human individuals. That, at base, is his point, I think: that these flawed and messed-up people nonetheless manage to function as conduits for the Gospel. I guess the trick is in parsing out which parts are "Godly" and which are "man-made." The resistance on the part of the Church to do this is one of the reasons FARMS came into existence.

Bond...James Bond wrote:Too bad he's gay right?

Is he really? I didn't realize that. That explains a lot.

Mister Scratch wrote:

Sethbag wrote:I guess the trick is in parsing out which parts are "Godly" and which are "man-made." The resistance on the part of the Church to do this is one of the reasons FARMS came into existence.

Oh you know so little. FARMS came into existence, and I was there on the very ground floor, to publish scholarly treatments of the Book of Mormon. No more, no less.