Blank Stare

[_Sam Harris]

???

Sometimes in speaking with the more zealous LDS that I know, I come across what seems to be a mental "blank stare", a point at which they shut off upstairs for some reason, because the discussion we're having is apparently something way too taboo for them.

Why it is ok to talk openly about your faith (meaning the LDS faith) when people don't understand it (and yet you get to elaborate and expand), and yet when someone else does this, one needs to shut down is beyond me.

I wrote a thread in the off topic forum about the His Dark Materials trilogy. Good reading, Pullman left some plot questions unanswered for me, but I bought the book after some discussion about it came up at a party where I was the only non-LDS. Of course amongst them it was "off limits" because "someone said" it was anti-Christian.

I'm sorry, but this book was a pretty weak-assed version of anti-Christian. I don't see this book breaking the faith of anyone who reads it, I recommend they read it, it's good fantasy. But once again, I think it would take someone with some serious unanswered theological questions to be swayed by the few lines of anti-religion that this book represents.

But back to my friends...

I'm stubborn, I bought the book because "someone" told me not to. My LDS friends asked me about it, and I told them my views, especially why I bought it. I refuse to let another human being sway my thinking without them having good evidence to back their claim that I need to change my thinking.

Blank stare. You see, that's essentially saying I'd not listen to a prophet. Um, no I wouldn't. And even when I was LDS, I had a problem with letting a man born of a woman rule me spiritually. You only get to be my mentor if I give you that privilege. You don't get to take the office for yourself.

Well, just got off the phone with a friend, and she asked if I had finished the book yet. I told her yes, told her my opinion, and told her that I thought the anti-religion emphasis to be weak, and not only that, that I felt it would not convince any child not to believe in God. I also said that if my future children were anything like me, they'd come asking questions. I'm sure most children would.

I continued by saying that I believed pretty much that it was up to the individual to decide what they believe, that I've never seen any lasting conversional success in the realm of arguing over religion. I say do what you do.

Blank stare.

Um, WTF? Why it is that it's ok to go on and on about one's testimony, but you turn off and tune out when someone ultimately tells you that so long as you're happy and if you are religious, spiritually enlightened, that they don't care what you do.

Is there no way to get through to these people? I often come close to calling them out and saying that I believe they only keep me around because they think I'll reconvert someday. Luckily I can have an intelligent conversation with MOST of my LDS friends...

[_cksalmon]

Hi GIMR--

I do take your point. I saw the first movie soon after it was released (and more or less enjoyed it) and am not adverse to reading the trilogy (though, I don't see that happening any time soon, based on other literary backlogs at the moment).

From what I've read from reviewers and commentators, the "anti-Christian" material begins to heat up in the second volume and culminates, in the third, with the protagonists killing "God."

And, of course, the movie was toned down vis-a-vis the first novel, I'm sure.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the second and third installments. (Alas, I'm probably going to have to settle for the theatrical versions.)

Best.

CKS

[_Sam Harris]

Hey CK,

I think that the 3rd book more than any of the others took a stab at religion, and mainly it was the line (I'm quoting badly here), that Christianity was a well-intentioned mistake. C'mon...who is going to be swayed by that?

There were a lot of underlying nuances in the book, but Pullman covered his language well. You have to get through the triple world setting and understand the language and plots of each before you even get to thinking about the religious aspect. I won't spoil the books for you (g'head and read 'em, you'll enjoy...besides movies always leave stuff out), but Pullman left some plot holes for me. The ultimate war, he never said how that ended. Also there was supposed to be a repitition of the garden of eden, with a key character "playing the snake"...either I missed it or it didn't happen.

I've read much worse than Pullman. I liked those books, was pissed when I was too sick to read. That's one trilogy I'd read over, and it will eventually go up in hardback form next to my HP books. Heathen that I am, LOL.

[_moksha]

Sami, could you help settle a question? My daughter says that is toast in your hand for your avatar picture. I am uncertain as to what it is, since all I have to offer is a blank stare. So, what is it?



by the way, my animal from the Golden Compass website was a Gibbon, rather than a penguin.

[_cksalmon]

Sami, could you help settle a question? My daughter says that is toast in your hand for your avatar picture. I am uncertain as to what it is, since all I have to offer is a blank stare. So, what is it?



by the way, my animal from the Golden Compass website was a Gibbon, rather than a penguin.

I was a spider, which I took personally. Not liking spiders that much.

[_Sam Harris]

Sami, could you help settle a question? My daughter says that is toast in your hand for your avatar picture. I am uncertain as to what it is, since all I have to offer is a blank stare. So, what is it?



by the way, my animal from the Golden Compass website was a Gibbon, rather than a penguin.

LOL, tell my precious I said hi. That's actually a hamburger in my hand. :-)

[_Blixa]

by the way, my animal from the Golden Compass website was a Gibbon, rather than a penguin.

Ohhhh an ocelot named Tarquin---yes!!!

[_Mercury]

Sometimes in speaking with the more zealous LDS that I know, I come across what seems to be a mental "blank stare", a point at which they shut off upstairs for some reason, because the discussion we're having is apparently something way too taboo for them.

OOOOh yah, the "i'm really going to start to speak really quickly and change the pitch of my voice tactic."

I know exactly what you mean. Its a shutdown between the centers of cognition and the responses cease, as if you were brushing off the Jehovah's witnesses on saturday morning.

[_Mercury]

Do you feel the rhetoric coming from the christian right is justified?

[_Scottie]

I love how Tal puts it. The first thing he asks is, "If I could prove to you that the LDS church weren't true, would you even want to know?"

For most TBM's, the answer is no. The amount of pain and anguish it would cause would be too much for them.

I think someone on MAD had a list of quotes. One good one was, "Everyone wants to share their religion with you, but refuses to let you talk about yours." or something like that.

To find a truly open minded person in this world is, well, needles and haystacks come to mind.