Tithings and Blessings -- Cause Effect Relationship

[_Moniker]

Charity posted this in the celestial forum:

Paying tithing doesn't promise more money. Just blessings. There are many blessings which are not measured in money.

I often came across the sentiment at MAD that tithing had a direct positive correlation to "good things" happening for the tithe payer. Is this doctrine? Is this something taught in the Church? Is this just circulated as a popular myth?

What kind of blessings are LDS talking about here?

[_Imwashingmypirate]

When I was taught on the many occasions, I was told that the blessings are in many ways. Mainly that your money will go further. They say this because people worry that they will not have enough money to live on if they pay tithes but are told the lord will provide for their needs if they are faithful and pay tithes. We are told that we might even get a promotion or an advance.


Pirate.

[_Scottie]

I know that I was always taught that if you pay your tithing, you will have enough money. Now, this might not mean that you GET more money, but maybe you somehow have a sudden new willpower to not buy frivolous things so that you have enough for your bills. Or, perhaps a costly injury was avoided.

But I would say that the general membership does link tithing to monetary rewards. It's really no different than praying to the jug of milk. If you start paying tithing and somewhere in the near future, you receive some kind of pay increase, or win a small amount in Vegas or whatever, it was DEFINITELY the tithing that did it. If you lose your job, well, this is a test and if you stay true, you will be rewarded in the end. So, when you finally find another job, you can shout hallelujah for the rich rewards of a new job that God has granted you. <-- This was me as a TBM.

Oh, and don't forget the whole fire insurance wacko teachings. Of all the LDS teachings, this is one of the weirdest. Who comes up with this crap??

[_karl61]

They say that you pay ten percent of your increase. Does this include investments. I mean you took the risk. For example if you buy your home for 100 thousand and sell it ten years later at 300 thousand do they expect 20 thousand in tithing.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

They say that you pay ten percent of your increase. Does this include investments. I mean you took the risk. For example if you buy your home for 100 thousand and sell it ten years later at 300 thousand do they expect 20 thousand in tithing.

I was told to pay 10% on net increase. that's even before your taxes come off and everything else. What about if you get a loan then pay it back with interest later, do you pay tithes on that? If so then I should expect that they would pay back 10% when I pay the load back including interest. I wouldn't really expect them to do that but it is a debateble idea.

Pirate.

[_Scottie]

They say that you pay ten percent of your increase. Does this include investments. I mean you took the risk. For example if you buy your home for 100 thousand and sell it ten years later at 300 thousand do they expect 20 thousand in tithing.

Oh come now. Everything is God's. You didn't take any risks. Without God, you wouldn't have been able to buy a home in the first place.

This whole concept of "Everything is God's and he just lets you use His stuff and only asks for 10% back" is somewhat insulting to me. I worked very hard to get where I am. Now, I'm supposed to roll over and thank God for my brains and body so that I could work hard?

[_charity]

Tithings and Blessings -- Cause Effect Relationship
Charity posted this in the celestial forum:

Quote:
Paying tithing doesn't promise more money. Just blessings. There are many blessings which are not measured in money.

I often came across the sentiment at MAD that tithing had a direct positive correlation to "good things" happening for the tithe payer. Is this doctrine? Is this something taught in the Church? Is this just circulated as a popular myth?

What kind of blessings are LDS talking about here?

This is the law and blessing associated with it. 3 Ne. 24: 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house; and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

I have experienced such an outpouring and it had nothing to do with money, or budgeting, or raises in pay. It was an extremely spiritual experience where I was shown the blessings in my life and it was an overwhelming experience. Really a literal fulfillment of "not be room enough to receive it."

When I was taught on the many occasions, I was told that the blessings are in many ways. Mainly that your money will go further. They say this because people worry that they will not have enough money to live on if they pay tithes but are told the lord will provide for their needs if they are faithful and pay tithes. We are told that we might even get a promotion or an advance.

I can sympathize with those who told you that, but these are not doctrinal.

I know that I was always taught that if you pay your tithing, you will have enough money. Now, this might not mean that you GET more money, but maybe you somehow have a sudden new willpower to not buy frivolous things so that you have enough for your bills. Or, perhaps a costly injury was avoided.

But I would say that the general membership does link tithing to monetary rewards. It's really no different than praying to the jug of milk. If you start paying tithing and somewhere in the near future, you receive some kind of pay increase, or win a small amount in Vegas or whatever, it was DEFINITELY the tithing that did it. If you lose your job, well, this is a test and if you stay true, you will be rewarded in the end. So, when you finally find another job, you can shout hallelujah for the rich rewards of a new job that God has granted you. <-- This was me as a TBM.

I always grit my teeth when someone "bears testimony" to the monetary benefits of paying tithing. Such as "I paid my tithing and the very next day, I got a pay raise.' I've paid my tithing for years when I didn't get a pay raise. But we do give God all the credit for every blessing in our lives, whether it is seen as a blessing specific to keeping a certain commandment.

However, we are also taugh this:D&C 130: 20-21 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

I don't begin to understand what this means. Does it mean that there is ONE law, and if we obey that law we get blessings? Does it mean there ia specific law for each specific blessing, and we get a specific blessing by obeying that spedific law? ?????

Oh, and don't forget the whole fire insurance wacko teachings. Of all the LDS teachings, this is one of the weirdest. Who comes up with this crap??

The fire insurance thing is a joke! We don't believe if you pay tithing your house won't burn down! This is where it comes from: D&C 64: 23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

This is reference to the destruction by fire attendant to the Second Coming. It isn't about your wiring arcing and starting a fire in your attic!

They say that you pay ten percent of your increase. Does this include investments. I mean you took the risk. For example if you buy your home for 100 thousand and sell it ten years later at 300 thousand do they expect 20 thousand in tithing.

We are told "increase." I think people interpret that different ways. My rule was be safe rather than sorry. I calculated tithing on my gross income. Didn't take out taxes, investments, etc. Now that I am drawing on the investment income, I pay tithing on that. I think some people calculate tithing on the basis of net income. The important thing is if you can look the bishop straight in the eye and tell him you pay an honest tithing. He doesn't ask you how you calculated it.

I was told to pay 10% on net increase. that's even before your taxes come off and everything else. What about if you get a loan then pay it back with interest later, do you pay tithes on that? If so then I should expect that they would pay back 10% when I pay the load back including interest. I wouldn't really expect them to do that but it is a debateble idea.

I would say you don't calculate tithing on a loan. It is a debt not an increase.

Oh come now. Everything is God's. You didn't take any risks. Without God, you wouldn't have been able to buy a home in the first place.

This whole concept of "Everything is God's and he just lets you use His stuff and only asks for 10% back" is somewhat insulting to me. I worked very hard to get where I am. Now, I'm supposed to roll over and thank God for my brains and body so that I could work hard?

I recognize there is logic in your statment. But where did you get your brains, your, body, your education, your opportunities to work hard. This is what King Benjamin had to say about that:

Mosiah 2: 23-24 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him. And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Tithings and Blessings -- Cause Effect Relationship
Charity posted this in the celestial forum:

Quote:
Paying tithing doesn't promise more money. Just blessings. There are many blessings which are not measured in money.

I often came across the sentiment at MAD that tithing had a direct positive correlation to "good things" happening for the tithe payer. Is this doctrine? Is this something taught in the Church? Is this just circulated as a popular myth?

What kind of blessings are LDS talking about here?

This is the law and blessing associated with it. 3 Ne. 24: 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house; and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
that's nice. So God will give us a blessing but we won't recieve it because there isn't enough room.
I have experienced such an outpouring and it had nothing to do with money, or budgeting, or raises in pay. It was an extremely spiritual experience where I was shown the blessings in my life and it was an overwhelming experience. Really a literal fulfillment of "not be room enough to receive it."

When I was taught on the many occasions, I was told that the blessings are in many ways. Mainly that your money will go further. They say this because people worry that they will not have enough money to live on if they pay tithes but are told the lord will provide for their needs if they are faithful and pay tithes. We are told that we might even get a promotion or an advance.

I can sympathize with those who told you that, but these are not doctrinal.
Yeah I see. What is doctrin concerning tithes?

I know that I was always taught that if you pay your tithing, you will have enough money. Now, this might not mean that you GET more money, but maybe you somehow have a sudden new willpower to not buy frivolous things so that you have enough for your bills. Or, perhaps a costly injury was avoided.

But I would say that the general membership does link tithing to monetary rewards. It's really no different than praying to the jug of milk. If you start paying tithing and somewhere in the near future, you receive some kind of pay increase, or win a small amount in Vegas or whatever, it was DEFINITELY the tithing that did it. If you lose your job, well, this is a test and if you stay true, you will be rewarded in the end. So, when you finally find another job, you can shout hallelujah for the rich rewards of a new job that God has granted you. <-- This was me as a TBM.

I always grit my teeth when someone "bears testimony" to the monetary benefits of paying tithing. Such as "I paid my tithing and the very next day, I got a pay raise.' I've paid my tithing for years when I didn't get a pay raise. But we do give God all the credit for every blessing in our lives, whether it is seen as a blessing specific to keeping a certain commandment.

However, we are also taugh this:D&C 130: 20-21 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

I don't begin to understand what this means. Does it mean that there is ONE law, and if we obey that law we get blessings? Does it mean there ia specific law for each specific blessing, and we get a specific blessing by obeying that spedific law? ?????

Oh, and don't forget the whole fire insurance wacko teachings. Of all the LDS teachings, this is one of the weirdest. Who comes up with this crap??

The fire insurance thing is a joke! We don't believe if you pay tithing your house won't burn down! This is where it comes from: D&C 64: 23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

This is reference to the destruction by fire attendant to the Second Coming. It isn't about your wiring arcing and starting a fire in your attic!

They say that you pay ten percent of your increase. Does this include investments. I mean you took the risk. For example if you buy your home for 100 thousand and sell it ten years later at 300 thousand do they expect 20 thousand in tithing.

We are told "increase." I think people interpret that different ways. My rule was be safe rather than sorry. I calculated tithing on my gross income. Didn't take out taxes, investments, etc. Now that I am drawing on the investment income, I pay tithing on that. I think some people calculate tithing on the basis of net income. The important thing is if you can look the bishop straight in the eye and tell him you pay an honest tithing. He doesn't ask you how you calculated it.

I was told to pay 10% on net increase. that's even before your taxes come off and everything else. What about if you get a loan then pay it back with interest later, do you pay tithes on that? If so then I should expect that they would pay back 10% when I pay the load back including interest. I wouldn't really expect them to do that but it is a debateble idea.

I think I wrote this, hmmm.... maybe Roger wrote what I thought I wrote. But that is cool, then I don't need to pay tithes. Even though my bish said I should and that I'd be greatly blessed, then he cried. So then do I not need to pay on my bank overdraft?
I would say you don't calculate tithing on a loan. It is a debt not an increase.

Oh come now. Everything is God's. You didn't take any risks. Without God, you wouldn't have been able to buy a home in the first place.

This whole concept of "Everything is God's and he just lets you use His stuff and only asks for 10% back" is somewhat insulting to me. I worked very hard to get where I am. Now, I'm supposed to roll over and thank God for my brains and body so that I could work hard?

I recognize there is logic in your statment. But where did you get your brains, your, body, your education, your opportunities to work hard. This is what King Benjamin had to say about that:

Mosiah 2: 23-24 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him. And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?

[Guest]

Odd, what about the thousands of FPRS about tithing...

"I couldn't pay my bills, so I paid my tithing..."

And then:

"I found an extra $200 in my bank account!"
"Somebody sent me $500 dollars!"
"I got a raise!"
"Somebody paid my bills!"

Get a grip Charity, it's all about money. The Mormon Cult was broke in the later part of the 1800's and instituted the full 10% tithing on gross rather than interest. Everything the Cult owns now (including billion dollar shopping malls) was bought with member tithe.

The whole Cult is about money. I can't even begin to tell you the number of people who suddenly became "worthy" for the Cult temple by paying "Back Tithing".

It all starts with money. Are you depressed? Have you paid your tithing? Are you struggling with the Lord? Have you paid your tithing?

Tithing always comes first in Mormonism. Any member who is struggling in any way (job loss, broken down car, depression, etc) will always be counseled to pay tithing in order to receive blessings. All blessings, privileges and callings in the LDS Cult are centered around tithing. Without paying a full tithe, a member cannot be a “member in good standing”.

Mormons who loose their temple recommends are in serious jeopardy of loosing their Celestial blessings. A Mormon who does not pay tithing cannot enter the temple. If a member cannot get into the temple, the member cannot learn the secret handshake, secret password, secret "new name" and special “sealings”. Without these, the member will be unable to pass Joseph Smith and the angels who guard the entrance to the Celestial Kingdom.

Mormons are commanded that tithing must come first before anything else. Utah has the highest rate of bankruptcies in the United States. Mormons often are told "I cannot pay my bills until I've paid my tithing." Mormons will even pay their tithing rather than give the money to a relative who is on the verge of eviction. Mormon published magazines (Ensign, New Era) constantly stress that tithing must always be paid.

Recently, Mormon Senator Orrin Hatch passed legislation that allowed members to pay a full tithe even while they were in bankruptcy court. (See S. 4044).

Mormons are told: "if a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing." (Lynn Robbins, General Conference, April 2005).

Mormons who have not paid tithing will be denied a temple recommend and will be considered "unworthy". However; Mormons who pay "back-tithing" (some as much as $5000 or more) are instantly found to be worthy and can receive their temple recommends back once the money has been paid. The Mormon Cult uses this as an extortion method when it comes to temple marriages. Parents or family members who have not paid tithing are required to pay back tithing - sometimes in the thousands of dollars - which must be paid before a temple recommend can be issued in order to see their own children married.

Mormons who claim that tithing is purely "a personal choice" are deceiving themselves and outright lying.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Are people really asked to pay back tithing??? Jeez.