Basic Christianity.

[_Ray A]

Would the world have been better off without Christianity?

Imagine - no religion, no God.

Would we now all be living in peace and harmony?

[_The Nehor]

Humanity is the most dangerous species on the planet. We keep coming up with more efficient ways to kill each other. On top of that, we also come up with new reasons to kill each other.

I don't think there would be any more peace. I suspect that we feel like we're entering a more civilized age only because no one can threaten us at the moment. The rage that leads to war is still there. When the catalyst hits we will (speaking collectively and not individually) be no better than our ancestors who fought for women, food, and empire.

[_Ray A]

"I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between Him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creation of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. " --- Napoleon Bonaparte.

[Schreech]

Hi Ray,

I think it would be impossible for there not to be religion.
Mankind's ability to imagine is what makes mankind so different from the other species on this planet.
I think the two go together in some way or another.
I'm adding to that my idea that a 'lack of belief in one particular 'god', is still a belief. Atheism is a religion, a way of viewing
the how's and what's and where's and why's of this world.

What do you think?

Mary

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Humanity is the most dangerous species on the planet. We keep coming up with more efficient ways to kill each other. On top of that, we also come up with new reasons to kill each other.

I don't think there would be any more peace. I suspect that we feel like we're entering a more civilized age only because no one can threaten us at the moment. The rage that leads to war is still there. When the catalyst hits we will (speaking collectively and not individually) be no better than our ancestors who fought for women, food, and empire.

Oh my gosh! The first thing I have read from you that is actually relative. Mind you Im not all that relative myself. Are you saying we are going back to the cave man instinct sorta thing. My mum talks about cavemen often. Why does caveman look lke caravan to me? Hmmm....

[_Ray A]

Hi Ray,

I think it would be impossible for there not to be religion Ray.
Mankind's ability to imagine is what makes mankind so different from the other species on this planet.
I think the two go togetherb in some way or another.
I'm adding to that my idea that a 'lack of belief in one particular 'god', is still a belief. Atheism is a religion, a way of viewing
the how's and what's and where's and why's of this world.

What do you think?

Mary

Mary, I agree with your sentiments. The "search for meaning" is dominant in human beings, and atheism is one aspect of that search. I have nothing against atheists, until they disparage my beliefs. I even encourage criticism and questioning. I have defended Mormonism, but perhaps I should state my "ulterior motive" here. I believe in Christ, and I believe in his life and ministry, regardless of "scholarship". That is my choice, and I believe it's the right choice for me.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

If there were no religion and no God, we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves. Someone somewhere would create a God because we need there to be a god. We need, psychologically and emotionally there to be something greater, something that teaches us and gives us guidelines or standards. Even if those are from a mans heart. Otherwise there would be no rules. People would be like animals. They would kill each other for survival. Everything we do would be based on instinct and not on morality. And so we would be lesser than we are in terms of knowledge (in a sort of hedonistic way). Was it John Stewart Mill that created hedons, a sort of point scoring thing, that was derived from his teacher Jeremy Bentham's Utilitarianism? that's what I mean by hedonistic. So really we would merely be as a pig, as Mill would generously put it.

[_Mary]

Mary, I agree with your sentiments. The "search for meaning" is dominant in human beings, and atheism is one aspect of that search. I have nothing against atheists, until they disparage my beliefs. I even encourage criticism and questioning. I have defended Mormonism, but perhaps I should state my "ulterior motive" here. I believe in Christ, and I believe in his life and ministry, regardless of "scholarship". That is my choice, and I believe it's the right choice for me.

I think that some religions are better than others at bringing the widest good to the most people. Ikes I know that is difficult to judge. But if a religion has basic tenets which are ultimately destructive to itself or any outside the group, then I would say that that's probably a recipe for disaster.

Gosh, if I had to pick a religion that were the most 'loving' I wouldn't be able to pick the christianity that has been fostered down the years through different powermongering regimes. (Entirely separate from Jesus' basic theology, which I think I hold to a lot more closely) Maybe Buddhism? Atheism is such a wide term for so many people that I would find it harder to judge whether atheist tenets would be more successful. Maybe humanism?

Mary

[_Imwashingmypirate]

P.s. Right on Ray. We follow Jesus because the stories of him, whether they be true or not, are good morals to live by. Who cares of the source of things and whether things were as they are said or taught to be. But rather, the teachings and doctrine are what's important. I once tried to debate that I didn't care the origin of the Book of Mormon, but I go by it's instruction and advice and teachings. To me at that time, it did not matter who wrote it or if it really was by ancient prophets or not. I did not care because I did not read it as a story, that I ought to believe all these things to be true and literal, but rather as a book that contained information on how to deal with certain issues and how it is Ok to trust in a higher being. I gave up. But really! does it matter? If one has faith in a book that it will do them good in their life, whether spiritual or physical, then believe that. But why rest foundations of belief on something that might surely fall. We cannot say for certain the absolute source of the Book of Mormon, we can say that witnesses claim it's origin. But would God really wasn't that we choose to follow a book because it was written or because there is something in that book that we learn from and is good unto us? My point is that we ought not to argue of the origins of the book and whether it is 'true' or not, because the origins are irrelative and obviously the book is true. It is in front of us. We are all refering to the same book. It is ones pro-orgative if they choose to live by the principles in such a book, just as it is of ones choice to drive a certain car or choose to cook from a recipe book. Am I making sense here?


Pirate.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Mary you are just like my mum. She believe Budhism to be true and believes she is a humanist. My mum of course has her reasons and I agree with her on some such aspects. It's cool, but one can believe in such things and believe in God also.