DiscussMormonism.com

The LDS church is a uniquely American institution, with teachings about this being the promised land, the site of the Garden of Eden and the new Jerusalem, not to mention predictions about saving the US constitution. Except for Israel and its status as the home of the original chosen people, the rest of the world is ignored. All we have are vague references of visits to "other sheep."

I've often wondered how church members and 'investigators' outside the US (or North America, at most) view this phenomenon and how they see their cultures and history fitting into the big picture of Mormonism.

I know from my mission experience in Japan that we tended to attract people who loved all things American... the culture, the music, the history, etc. Others had a difficult time relating the stories to their own lives. At the time I used to wonder how I would react to people telling me about a book that took place on another continent (Australia, for example), and that told about how that place is the chosen land. Not too favorably, I think.

What do you think?

I didn't really find it that big a deal personally - growing up. I had no issue with America and I did honestly think of Utah as 'the promised land' growing up. Where there were neighbourhoods of Mormons!! (The idea seemed brilliant to me - if not totally alien!)

I remember just before I went into the MTC at Provo - and a couple (who used to live in England but had moved back to Utah) let me stay over the night before and took me round Provo before going in. We went to a random place for a milkshake, and just happened to get talking to the guy behind the counter, and he said that he was planning to go on his mission in a couple of months or something like that.
...that just blew my mind! :)


I don't think we ever paid 'that' much attention to the specific verses that talk of America being 'the promised land'. I mean, we knew about them of course, but we never sat there repeating to ourselves 'America is the best, and our nation sucks'. It was just one of those verses you read and then move on to the next...

We never sang the patriotic American 'hymns' either... (I always thought it was 'weird' they were in the hymn book at all...)

...of course, I was a tad annoyed by a particularly annoying missionary companion who liked to bring up the Book of Mormon verses that talk about Great Britain in - hmm - not so glowing terms let's say... :) And I got really tired of missionaries being uber surprised when I told them that I hadn't played much basketball, and NEVER played baseball. (Some of them just couldn't seem to get their head round it...)

krose wrote: At the time I used to wonder how I would react to people telling me about a book that took place on another continent (Australia, for example), and that told about how that place is the chosen land. Not too favorably, I think.

What do you think?

Well it probably wouldn't work in Australia anyway as even one prime minister referred to Oz as "the arse end of the earth" (Paul Keating). Australia was also colonised and settled by the British and convicts mainly, so it doesn't have the same ring as people seeking religious freedom. The very government the Pilgrims were trying to get away from were the ones who settled Australia. Americans are passionate about God and religion, so the Book of Mormon makes more sense in that context.

In my experience there was not very much emphasis on America as the chosen land, and in fact in recent years anti-Americanism has grown, probably because of the unpopularity of the Iraq war, and Bush. When Bush visited Oz a while back he was flown in by night under tight Air Force fighter escort, and the security arrangements were phenomenal, possibly because of some fanatical Islamic extremists in the country too.

Australia, and most other countries, just don't fit as a "chosen land" as America does, and history makes it that way.

I don't really care. I just take what is useful in my life and live my life accordingly. I don't really try to be other than I am. But I need to work on myself now to allow for progress. I was always taught that we would go to the nearest temple with our seventy two hour pack and we would fly to the temple in missoury, where we would live in safety.

In Antarctica, we find it comforting to see others clothed in black and white and in pairs.

Ray A wrote:Well it probably wouldn't work in Australia anyway as even one prime minister referred to Oz as "the arse end of the earth" (Paul Keating). Australia was also colonised and settled by the British and convicts mainly, so it doesn't have the same ring as people seeking religious freedom. The very government the Pilgrims were trying to get away from were the ones who settled Australia. Americans are passionate about God and religion, so the Book of Mormon makes more sense in that context.

In my experience there was not very much emphasis on America as the chosen land, and in fact in recent years anti-Americanism has grown, probably because of the unpopularity of the Iraq war, and Bush. When Bush visited Oz a while back he was flown in by night under tight Air Force fighter escort, and the security arrangements were phenomenal, possibly because of some fanatical Islamic extremists in the country too.

Australia, and most other countries, just don't fit as a "chosen land" as America does, and history makes it that way.

Your comments make sense in light of history since the time of colonization, and yes, the atmosphere in the early US did contribute to the rise of Mormonism, but there is no reason a BoM-type story of the aboriginal people of Australia could not have been put together naming them as coming from Israel. Or New Zealand, which is a pretty place that could certainly qualify as a chosen land.

moksha wrote:In Antarctica, we find it comforting to see others clothed in black and white and in pairs.

That first pair is Butch and Sundance, right?

moksha wrote:In Antarctica, we find it comforting to see others clothed in black and white and in pairs.

LOL. That was funny. I imagined penguins. I guess that's what you intended.

Is the alien in the background a missionary too? It appears to be wearing something that might resemble the badge of a missionary.

krose wrote:Your comments make sense in light of history since the time of colonization, and yes, the atmosphere in the early US did contribute to the rise of Mormonism, but there is no reason a BoM-type story of the aboriginal people of Australia could not have been put together naming them as coming from Israel. Or New Zealand, which is a pretty place that could certainly qualify as a chosen land.

New Zealand is a very pretty country, and cold too. The Maori are considered "Lamanites", and actually the first temple in the Southern Hemisphere was built in Hamilton, NZ, in 1958. The Maori did have their own legends and beliefs, but I haven't studied them in detail. I think they do connect "Hagoth" somewhere (the LDS Maori) in those legends, but I'd have to look at that again.

If Australia was a "chosen land" with a record like the Book of Mormon I suppose the Brits would be offended. They hate getting beaten at cricket, and if that's not bad enough, a "chosen land" Down Under would mortify them. The problem with Oz, though, is that once the divine record book was produced, the prophet would have to get people out of the pubs to listen. Alcohol came with the first fleet, and drunken govenors was not uncommon.

Unlike the American Indians (including the Maya and Aztecs), Australian Aboriginals never had romantic stories about being connected to Israelites, though they have had very similar problems as the Indians did with assimilation and alcohol dependency (frankly, in my opinion the Anglos have a much bigger problem with alcohol now). I really can't think of anywhere that would be more suited for the Book of Mormon than America, because it meets all the conditions. Every other country was riddled with monarchies, dynasties, Czars, conquerors, multiple invasions, like Britain, Spain and France, but apart from the Indians the Americas remained virtually untouched until the late 15th century. (Beastie would know more about this than I do.)

But of course it could just be a "romance novel" adapted to suit the Americas. Maybe Albert Namitjira could have come up with something (famous Aboriginal artist), or James Forbes, but they didn't. The passion just wasn't there, the interest just wasn't there. Sport (cricket in particular) was already the national religion. Don Bradman was more important than Jesus Christ.

Ray A wrote:They hate getting beaten at cricket...

We really had to milk that last Ashes win for all it was worth.
...we know that's not coming around again anytime soon :/