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Todd Compton's (past) Criticisms of the Tanners.

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:59 pm
by _Ray A
In this response Compton also clears up some misconceptions about his book.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compton.shtml (Emphases added to excerpts. See link for full text.)

Even though I understand that some will read my book only to glean "negative" details about Joseph Smith's polygamy, I am cheered when I find people who have read the book all the way through and have sympathetically relived the lives of 33 fascinating, remarkable women. Judging from their "review" of my book, the Tanners are not among that group. They merely excerpt passages about Joseph Smith for sensational effect.

As I read through their treatment of my book, I once again recognized aspects of their writing that are problematic for me. Though I appreciate their sincerity, and they are definitely a cut above anti-Mormons such as Ed Decker, and though they have done LDS readers a service in republishing early LDS-related books (though often sensational anti-Mormon exposes), in matters of interpretation, I have not found them to be reliable. For a treatment of their limitations by a respected non-LDS historian, see Lawrence Foster, "Career Apostates: Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner," in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Summer 1984), 35- 64, revised and reprinted in Roger D. Launius and Linda Thatcher, eds., Differing Visions: Dissenters in Mormon History (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1994). Foster is especially telling when he criticizes the Tanners for applying an extreme negative critique to Mormonism, but not being willing to apply the same critique to their own Biblical and Protestant tradition.

While the Tanners constantly accuse the LDS church of dishonesty, coverups, and hypocrisy, they themselves may be open to some of the same charges. I dislike Mormon history that systematically censors out anything problematic, tragic, or reflecting human fallibility (i.e., real humanity) in church members or culture. This kind of history is, to me, dishonest, and the opposite of "faith-promoting." (Authentic faith is never dependent on dishonesty or covering up the balanced truth.) Furthermore, this kind of history is often insipid and sentimental.

So I respect the Tanners' sincerity, but believe they have fallen into a trap. It is a natural human tendency to react against extremism by a contrary extremism. In other words, when conservative Mormons produce history without shadows, human faults, or problems, it is easy to respond by producing history intended to refute it that includes only shadows, human faults and problems. But that history is as unbelievable as the history it responds against. Even though some of the details may be true (as in the overidealized positive history), the whole perspective is false. The honest reaction to dishonest extremist history is to write balanced history.

In addition, the Tanners may have known that other Protestant groups (such as the early Anabaptists) believed in polygamy and practiced it, and that Luther sanctioned polygamy - -- but they did not mention this. A book that gives some of this background is John Cairncross, After Polygamy Was Made a Sin (London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1974) (cited in my book on p. 640), especially pp. 36, 49. Luther and polygamy is a fascinating, complicated story that also includes disparities between public pronouncement and private practice, just as we find throughout the history of Mormon polygamy.

The Tanners made great mileage out of Joseph Smith's marriage to his youngest wife, Helen Mar Kimball. However, they failed to mention that I wrote that there is absolutely no evidence that there was any sexuality in the marriage, and I suggest that, following later practice in Utah, there may have been no sexuality. (p. 638) All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage. Furthermore, in the Protestant polygamist tradition, it is common to find examples of marriages to young teenagers. (Cairncross, p. 14.) I strongly disapprove of polygamous marriages involving teenage women, but my point is that it is inconsistent and unfair for a Protestant to denounce Mormons for doing such things while not denouncing his or her own tradition.

On an individual basis, Mormons made many mistakes with polygamy, a social system that I believe does not work for "modern" (nineteenth and twentieth century) women. As I mentioned earlier, I do not think polygamy is an eternal system that needed to be "restored"; it is rather a cultural artifact from Semitic culture, resurrected by restorationist enthusiasm.

I am a practicing Mormon, of a liberal, Lowell Bennion sort, but I reject absolutist, oversimplified views of religion -- the idea that religious leaders, Biblical or modern, Mormon or Protestant, can be perfect or infallible. I think a non-absolutist view of religion, that allows for cultural and human complexity, is the only religious viewpoint that works, for the thoughtful believer.


Comments?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:08 am
by _richardMdBorn
Foster is especially telling when he criticizes the Tanners for applying an extreme negative critique to Mormonism, but not being willing to apply the same critique to their own Biblical and Protestant tradition.
What does this have to do with whether or not the Tanners are reliable historians. Rather, it appears to reflect Foster's personal beliefs differing from those of the Tanners. I guess one is not allowed to have different beliefs from Foster.

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:18 am
by _Ray A
richardMdBorn wrote:What does this have to do with whether or not the Tanners are reliable historians. Rather, it appears to reflect Foster's personal beliefs differing from those of the Tanners. I guess one is not allowed to have different beliefs from Foster.


Foster isn't the only one critical, it's primarily Compton here, and he explains why. Possibly the first published critic of the Tanners was D. Michael Quinn: http://www.lds-mormon.com/mo2.shtml

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:19 am
by _huckelberry
Tanners are amateurs who dig up all kinds of stuff which might create questions about Mormon claims and put them in a pile. It can be a pile which someone can find some interesting odds and ends in. I think it a bit silly to expect balanced history from them. I am puzzled how often people bother to explain that they are not balanced. They are tossing things at people to make people ask questions. They have an agenda, as if somebody has failed to notice.

But I do not think for a moment that Compton is actually interested in making evaluations of the Tanners. He is interested in distancing himself from them I would suspect. OK that's nice. I read his book on polygamy and could sense that he sincerely wanted to see the whole thing as a faithpromothing story of devotion and sacrifice. But an author does not really have control over the meaning that readers find in the text. I read and found only myself being very glad to be outside of that nightmare of insame manipulation.

'I was horrified by the Helen story not because she might or might not have had sex. I cannot even imagine a mind which would take refuge in the marriges sexlessness as justification for the pointless ego extension at the price of this girls self futrue and marriage hopes. The only thing I could glean from the book was that Josephs ego had grown to monsterous proportions.

Now my reaction is not balanced. It is not an objective picture of the authors intention. I have no idea how I would go about erasing my view from my mind. I suspect the Tanners see something rather similar to what I do and make no effort to hide that fact.

I suppose it is a complete waste of time but I am going to register a couple of observations. I subject my beliefs to rather serious criticism. I do not believe for a moment that I protect them while attacking Mormons. I may have views about Christian problems that some people do not agree with. I think it is best to be clear about problems even if that does not always result in my neighbor saying I am right all the time.

I find the Luther comparison bizarre. Luther made a few comments speculating polygamy could be a possible solutions to some circumstances. This was in connection with the marital problems of a prince from whom Lutherans received political help. I do not think that was a particulary good idea of Luthers but it was not even in the same universe as the polygamy taught by Joseph Smith. Well you can apply the same name. The particular anabaptist leader doing polygamy probably was as insane as Joseph Smith.

Yeah i can see problems in Protestant history. how long a list do I need to have to be fair?