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I was reading PP's story, and it reminded me somewhat of my own pressure to serve a mission.

I remember growing up in the church, hearing several talks about the duty to serve a mission. If you did not serve a mission, and somebody would have been baptised if you had served a mission, their sins will be on your shoulders.

I've even heard it said that if you pass up an opportunity to share the gospel, the sins of that person will be on your head.

What kind of sick logic is that?

There was also the teaching that if your children fall away, it meant you didn't do a good enough job raising them, and their sins will be on you.

At the judgement bar, all these things will be laid before God and you will cry for the mountains to fall on top of you to hide your face!

To put this kind of pressure on a young man and young parents...Not only are you responsible for your own salvation, but you will be judged for everyone else too!

This is borderline emotional abuse, in my mind.

Scottie wrote:I was reading PP's story, and it reminded me somewhat of my own pressure to serve a mission.

I remember growing up in the church, hearing several talks about the duty to serve a mission. If you did not serve a mission, and somebody would have been baptised if you had served a mission, their sins will be on your shoulders.

I've even heard it said that if you pass up an opportunity to share the gospel, the sins of that person will be on your head.

What kind of sick logic is that?

There was also the teaching that if your children fall away, it meant you didn't do a good enough job raising them, and their sins will be on you.

At the judgement bar, all these things will be laid before God and you will cry for the mountains to fall on top of you to hide your face!

To put this kind of pressure on a young man and young parents...Not only are you responsible for your own salvation, but you will be judged for everyone else too!

This is borderline emotional abuse, in my mind.

I don't recall hearing that sort of pressure in my ward. The biggest pressure here is that your family will be shamed if you don't serve a mission. Of course, this is not overt. But just because it's not overt doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

At the judgment bar, we will all be judged for our sins, both of commission and omission. However, we cannot be judged for something someone else did, no matter how we might have effected them had we done our lives differently. God knows the beginning from the end, he knows what everyone is going to do.

We will be judged for our sins, not for anyone else's. Otherwise the 2nd AoF is a lie.

I don't recall being taught that if children fell away it was the parents' fault. I learned that if the parents didn't do enough to teach them and they fell astray then it would be on the parents' responsibility. If I didn't work hard enough on my mission and someone missed their chance to hear the gospel, I'd be responsible. It's all about the word "enough". When is it enough? Could someone ever know that they had done enough? Is this not the kind of thing where someone can work as hard as they can, and still not be sure they'd done enough? Isn't this one of the things many who leave complain about? That it was all never enough?

Sethbag wrote:I don't recall being taught that if children fell away it was the parents' fault. I learned that if the parents didn't do enough to teach them and they fell astray then it would be on the parents' responsibility. If I didn't work hard enough on my mission and someone missed their chance to hear the gospel, I'd be responsible. It's all about the word "enough". When is it enough? Could someone ever know that they had done enough? Is this not the kind of thing where someone can work as hard as they can, and still not be sure they'd done enough? Isn't this one of the things many who leave complain about? That it was all never enough?

This is sort of the same thing.

Of course the child would have never fallen away if the parents had done more to raise him/her correctly. Therefore, the sins are on the parents.

I wonder, do they split the sins 50/50? Or does each parent get each sin? If you repent, does that cover the sins that are heaped upon you by others?

That would sure suck if you were in a hurry one day and passed by a stranger that you COULD have shared the gospel with, but didn't, and that person turned out to be a serial killer later.

I've spent many a conversation trying to convince my poor mother that she did everything she was supposed to in raising me in the church (and she did), and that my "falling away" is not a reflection of her efforts as a parent or her righteousness. But she believes that there was something else she should have done, or that if she lives more righteously now, I'll return to the fold. That is my one regret (and why I went out of my way for years to not discuss my belief or lack thereof with her) - she believes that my actions as an adult are still somehow her responsibility when it comes to final judgment. That's not right (especially since she was told for decades that if she, as a convert, was righteous enough and prayed hard enough, my non-member father would "soften his heart to the gospel" and join; either that or she should divorce him - he never did join, and they did eventually split for other reasons).

D&C 68: 25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

That is where we get that parents are accountable.

I think the judgement is going to be a very complicated thing, which is why I am glad it is done by the Savior, ultimately, and not by me.

charity wrote:D&C 68: 25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

That is where we get that parents are accountable.

I think the judgement is going to be a very complicated thing, which is why I am glad it is done by the Savior, ultimately, and not by me.

so much for believing that we will be punished for our own sins and not adam's (or our parents) transgressions - .


As to the mission issue: I propose that young men be taught the Jesus response which is not to answer but to ask another question. For example: when asked if you are going to serve a mission the young man should not reply but ask why anything passed Isaiah 40 is in the Book of Mormon since those scriptures were not written until after Lehi left for the new world.

charity wrote:D&C 68: 25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

That is where we get that parents are accountable.

I think the judgement is going to be a very complicated thing, which is why I am glad it is done by the Savior, ultimately, and not by me.

For Scottie, since you do not hold anything as divine or "true" that came from Smith, that above "scripture" does not apply.

That is the thing about Mormonism. It really is Smithism, since most of the doctrines came from him.