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All of this talk about Bob and his alleged marital manipulation has caused me to think more about this topic. I don't want to talk about Bob's case specifically. I want to discuss the emotionally charged war that occurs time and time in a again in a marriage when one partner in an LDS marriage, particularly a temple sealed marriage, decides they no longer have faith in the tenets of Mormonism.

I have been involved in the postmormon community since around 1997. The contents of this post are my observations and interactions with this community. During this time I cannot tell you how familiar I have become of this war zone. I believe that the concept of the marriage being an eternal unit is a double edged sword. It has a tendency to enhance the commitment level. It also has the tendency to blow the commitment out of proportion whenever faith conflict occurs. The believing spouse is not only fighting to rid the spouse of this harmful influence of doubt and unbelief, they are literally fighting to keep this family together as an eternal unit. The heightened dimension of this cause packs a punch and the believing spouse may go completely out of character to pull out the guns to win this fight.

The most first common weapon is most frequently found in the female arsenal, although I have seen it on occasion in the male side. Sexual withholding. There is blatant manipulation. "I don't like you. I believe you are under the influence of Satan and I don't want you to touch me. I think you are harming our family by your thoughts and I don't want to contribute to that by having sex with you. Your touch makes me sick. I can't believe you are turning your back on your eternal family, sleep in another room until you have come to your senses. Are you a homosexual? Are you a porn addict? I can't bear for you to touch me, it feels dirty."

Online, I have seen withholding time ranges from two months to four and a half years in married couples. I should probably mention that I know a lot of postmormon online posters in real life and their online stories are congruent with their real life account of this type of manipulation.

There is a less obvious manipulation in withholding. Doubting spouse expresses their concerns about the faith, and believing spouse goes into hyperdrive, trying to overcompensate both personally and within the family unit, by becoming hyperspiritual. One particular case comes to mind. This one disbeliever husband was faced with a wife who decided that abstaining from sex was a new form of devotion or piety, much like fasting. This husband went nine months without any form of sex. I don't know what happened after that.

The second most common weapon in the arsenal of the believing spouse is taking prisoners of war in the form of children. The believing spouse turns the children against the nonbelieving spouse by feeding them ideas that the nonbeliever is currently in a state of sin and must repent before they are to be acknowledged as a parental figure. A case in point. One disbeliever was going through a rough spell with the wife because she thought he was astray from the iron rod. She fasted incessantly. Three days out of every week. After about three months of this behavior, he walked through the door one evening to find the wife in a state of fear. She claims that when he walked through the door, "three Satanic spirits" followed him in. She yelled at him to leave the home and never to set foot in it again. She then called the bishop over to reconsecrate the home and asked for and received a priesthood blessing. (I would not normally believe this story except I know this man and his wife in real life and got corroborative stories from both of them about what occurred that night. Including graphic description from the wife about the size, shape and color of these spirits that drifted in with her husband.) The bishop then blessed each of the three children in the home, and the wife sat down with the children and explained to them that their father was under the influence of Satan and they were never, ever, ever to be alone with him. The children at the time were 7,4 and 2.

I mentioned in the Lehi shooting thread that I had known of believing wives who had premeditatively gotten a restraining order on the disbelieving spouse so they could use it in the divorce court in making sure they got custody. I find this particular weapon to be the most repugnant of all of them.

A less commonly used weapon is using social pressure, pulling in ecclesiastical leaders to shame and bully the disbelieving spouse. I think it is less commonly used because the believing spouse tends to internalize the disbelief as being something shameful, or embarrassing or somehow their fault. They have a tendency to go to all sorts of efforts to try to cover up the fact they have a disbelieving spouse until they absolutely cannot.

Threats of divorce are commonplace. Actual divorces are commonplace.

This is not a complete list. They are the only ones I can think of in my constrained time here.

So a couple of questions. Would any of these methods be construed as emotional terrorism? How does one define that? Clearly some of these fall under the manipulation/coercion category.

And secondly, how does a disbelieving spouse combat these types of war tactics? Are there ways to neutralize or minimize impact?

Trinity wrote:And secondly, how does a disbelieving spouse combat these types of war tactics? Are there ways to neutralize or minimize impact?

If the believer is withholding sex, then the disbeliever doesn't necessarily have to worry about the sin of self-defilement what with disbelieving and all.

If the disbeliever is female, she probably doesn't have to worry about custody as she'll get it anyhow because that's how the courts swing. If the disbeliever is male then he's short on luck unless the kids actually run to him as the nurturer when hurt. Not likely though. Men have almost no chance in custody. My advice to men is to schmooze or do whatever it takes to get in good with the misses as long as kids are at home. Otherwise the law will come down hard giving him only weekend visits in exchange for a heafty fine of child support and probably alimony too. It's unfair, but the courts aren't gonna change what with "best interest for the child" and all (as if divorce is in the child's best interest--not that the courts care about that part).

The title got me interested, but then I realised you were talking about something I know very little if not nothing about.

But I will discuss from a different view.

Trinity's characterdude wrote:"I don't like you. I believe you are under the influence of Satan and I don't want you to touch me. I think you are harming our family by your thoughts and I don't want to contribute to that by having sex with you. Your touch makes me sick. I can't believe you are turning your back on your eternal family, sleep in another room until you have come to your senses. Are you a homosexual? Are you a porn addict? I can't bear for you to touch me, it feels dirty."

Manipulation usually begins by making the 'victim' fell like crap and useless.
Labelling them. In most abuse cases the labelling would include, stupid, not woman enough, scum etc.
This suppresses the victim. Which leads to lack of confidence and self esteem causing the victim to think it is all their fault and they should have done something different, so they try to please the abuser.

Sexual interests tend to be a huge factor. Controling this area of anothers life allows for caveman type domination. This side of abuse is the side I understand the least.

trinity wrote:believing spouse is taking prisoners of war in the form of children. The believing spouse turns the children against the nonbelieving spouse by feeding them ideas that the nonbeliever is currently in a state of sin and must repent before they are to be acknowledged as a parental figure.

Again, typical pattern of domestic abuse and control. Children are the easiest way to get to a spouse.
Hurting and controlling the children hurt and control the victim.

Trinity wrote:Three days out of every week. After about three months of this behavior, he walked through the door one evening to find the wife in a state of fear. She claims that when he walked through the door, "three Satanic spirits" followed him in. ......The bishop then blessed each of the three children in the home, and the wife sat down with the children and explained to them that their father was under the influence of Satan and they were never, ever, ever to be alone with him. The children at the time were 7,4 and 2.

I just found this interesting. Sounds like psychosis.

Trinity wrote:pulling in ecclesiastical leaders to shame and bully the disbelieving spouse.

In domestic abuse, the abuser will make outsiders think the spouse is in the wrong. Again the bullying and intimidation leading to isolation.
An abuser will abuse behind the scenes but in public will be the nicey nice family person. Resulting in the victim being labelled by outsiders.

Very often those who have been supressed will become an abuser themselves.

If I go into this deeply I will be here all night.

From my observations, women withhold sex for all kinds of things. This is nothing new.

The second one is more disturbing. Thankfully, my ex wife and I both have the best interests of our children in mind and always have. We have never burdened our children with our trials. We have both vowed to never speak badly about the other parent, and to never use the kids a weapons against each other. So far it has worked out very well.

Women have always been underpinned by male power and it still exists within them as instinct and the only real instinctual power women have over males is that of sexual needs. Sounds silly I know. I personally would expect the other spouse to go elsewhere. But in some cases I would expect that on some level when sex is withheld, the person does generally feel sick, but most likely psychological. But there are extremes and witholding is something I less understand.

Imwashingmypirate wrote:

Trinity wrote:Three days out of every week. After about three months of this behavior, he walked through the door one evening to find the wife in a state of fear. She claims that when he walked through the door, "three Satanic spirits" followed him in. ......The bishop then blessed each of the three children in the home, and the wife sat down with the children and explained to them that their father was under the influence of Satan and they were never, ever, ever to be alone with him. The children at the time were 7,4 and 2.

I just found this interesting. Sounds like psychosis.

Good catch there, Pirate.

Also, 7+4+2=13!!

I actually spotted that too, but thought it would be just a little too cheesy to point out, also 3 x 1 = 3

I think you could change the circumstances and come up with what parents in bitter disputes do all the time. I have seen non-LDs couples do it with all kinds of situations. Individuals who have been hurt and betrayed often fall over the edge like that.

But I think the spouse who is leaving the faith bears a lot of responsiblity in how that happens.

I have a daughter, married in the temple, whose husband has left the Church. They have a strong and happy marriage. The husband remained respectful and supportive of her continued faith. They have family home evening, home teachers, he goes to Church to hear the kids speak or perform, does not complain about her attending the temple or doing her callings. He does not try to convince the children to leave the Church.

I also know a family that has broken up, the couple divorced, the dad with Wednesday night and every other weekend with a child. The husband decided the Church wasn't true, constantly harangued his wife over how stupid she was to stay with it, would complain at any effort she made in a church calling, would not allow home teachers, would not allow her to have family home evening.

It isn't about whether a person is a member of the Church or not. It is about respecting and loving your spouse and wanting them to be happy.

Now, that is love and respect.

Charity wrote:The husband remained respectful and supportive of her continued faith. They have family home evening, home teachers, he goes to Church to hear the kids speak or perform, does not complain about her attending the temple or doing her callings. He does not try to convince the children to leave the Church

Why does this ice cream have fake sherbit in it? Maybe mid night ice cream wasn't such a good idea. :S

Imwashingmypirate wrote:
Why does this ice cream have fake sherbit in it? Maybe mid night ice cream wasn't such a good idea. :S

What does that mean?