Entire populations lost to war?

[_krose]

Here is a question for ancient history buffs.

Do you know of any civilizations in the history of the world who eliminated themselves entirely in a civil war?

How about one side completely wiping out the other, while enough of the winning side survived to repopulate?

Obviously this is in reference to the Book of Mormon accounts of the Jaredites in the first case, and the Lehites in the other. I'm wondering about the validity -- compared to actual historical or archaeological accounts -- of Smith's explanations for the disappearance of the white races that he claimed once inhabited the Americas.

[_charity]

Here is a question for ancient history buffs.

Do you know of any civilizations in the history of the world who eliminated themselves entirely in a civil war?

How about one side completely wiping out the other, while enough of the winning side survived to repopulate?

Obviously this is in reference to the Book of Mormon accounts of the Jaredites in the first case, and the Lehites in the other. I'm wondering about the validity -- compared to actual historical or archaeological accounts -- of Smith's explanations for the disappearance of the white races that he claimed once inhabited the Americas.

I think your basic question is a good one. However, Joseph Smith never said anyting about the "disappearance of the white races" by way of claims or explanations,etc.

[_The Nehor]

The losing side was defeated and absorbed into the dominant population. Happens all the time.

[_krose]

I think your basic question is a good one. However, Joseph Smith never said anyting about the "disappearance of the white races" by way of claims or explanations,etc.

Am I wrong to interpret the Book of Mormon account in that way? Weren't the Jaredites and Nephites white? And doesn't the Book of Mormon say they were eliminated through war? I admit I haven't read the book (except to look up some things) in over 20 years, but that's how I remember the story. What did I get wrong?

[_krose]

The losing side was defeated and absorbed into the dominant population. Happens all the time.

Is that true of the Jaredites?

As for the Nephites, what about these verses?

Mormon 8:2
2 And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous
battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the
country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were
all destroyed.

Mormon 8:3
3 And my father also was killed by them, and I even remain alone
to write the sad tale of the destruction of my people. But
behold, they are gone, and I fulfil the commandment of my father.

This sounds like total annihilation to me.

[_cacheman]

How about one side completely wiping out the other, while enough of the winning side survived to repopulate?

I know of legends of such. Here's a reference. It's a pretty interesting read.

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC3 ... A4-PA52,M1
Museum Americanum; Or: Select Antiquities, Curiosities, Beauties, and Varieties, of Nature and... - Page 53
by Charles Hulbert - 1823 - 346 pages

A description of a NA tradition concerning culturaly advanced "white Indians" being destroyed by "black Indians" in a final great battle. pg 52-54

cacheman

[_moksha]

I think the Trojans bit the dust.

[_Doctor Steuss]

I know of legends of such. Here's a reference. It's a pretty interesting read.

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC3 ... A4-PA52,M1
Museum Americanum; Or: Select Antiquities, Curiosities, Beauties, and Varieties, of Nature and... - Page 53
by Charles Hulbert - 1823 - 346 pages

A description of a NA tradition concerning culturaly advanced "white Indians" being destroyed by "black Indians" in a final great battle. pg 52-54

cacheman

URL isn't working. :-(

[_The Nehor]

The losing side was defeated and absorbed into the dominant population. Happens all the time.

Is that true of the Jaredites?

As for the Nephites, what about these verses?

Mormon 8:2
2 And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous
battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the
country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were
all destroyed.

Mormon 8:3
3 And my father also was killed by them, and I even remain alone
to write the sad tale of the destruction of my people. But
behold, they are gone, and I fulfil the commandment of my father.

This sounds like total annihilation to me.

Contradicted by the text. In Moroni 1:2, talking about the Lamanites:

"For behold, their wars are exceedingly fierce among themselves; and because of their hatred they put to death every Nephite that will not deny the Christ."

Some Nephites undoubtedly survived as slaves, conquered people, and most likely defectors when the war started going badly.

[_bcspace]

I can accept the population of an entire urban center, trapped by an invading army, being totally wiped out. Of course any citizen of that urban center 'away for the weekend' or who has fled at the approach of said army would survive.

I would not believe that the entire population of any civilization could be totally destroyed by war as there will always be those who are away, those who flee, those on it's far fringes, and those who refuse to fight.

However, entire civilizations, as opposed to an entire populations, have been totally destroyed by war. In my recent reading, I recall the Mongols destroying Baghdad (12th - 13th century?) and there was not enough population left to maintain the water system existed between the Tigris and Euprates and it fell permanently into disrepair. That would be the destruction of a civilization imho.