Brigham Young's statement about witnesses

[_beastie]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I don't remember it.

Some of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon, who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God, were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel. One of the Quorum of the Twelve-a young man full of faith and good works, prayed, and the vision of his mind was opened, and the angel of God came and laid the plates before him, and he saw and handled them, and saw the angel, and conversed with him as he would with one of his friends; but after all this, he was left to doubt, and plunged into apostacy, and has continued to contend against this work. There are hundreds in a similar condition.

Brigham Young, WANT OF GOVERNING CAPACITIES AMONG MEN
ELEMENTS OFSACRAMENT-APOSTACY, ETC.

A Sermon by President BRIGHAM YOUNG, delivered in the

Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, June 5, 1859.

REPORTED BY G. D. WATT

7:160

http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_07/refJDvol7-26.html

[_Pokatator]

Witness remorse or the psychedelics wore off or a combination of both.

[_harmony]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I don't remember it.

Some of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon, who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God, were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel. One of the Quorum of the Twelve-a young man full of faith and good works, prayed, and the vision of his mind was opened, and the angel of God came and laid the plates before him, and he saw and handled them, and saw the angel, and conversed with him as he would with one of his friends; but after all this, he was left to doubt, and plunged into apostacy, and has continued to contend against this work. There are hundreds in a similar condition.

Brigham Young, WANT OF GOVERNING CAPACITIES AMONG MEN
ELEMENTS OFSACRAMENT-APOSTACY, ETC.

A Sermon by President BRIGHAM YOUNG, delivered in the

Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, June 5, 1859.

REPORTED BY G. D. WATT

7:160

http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_07/refJDvol7-26.html

Who is he specifically talking about?

[_beastie]

I don't know who, specifically, he was referring to. I was hoping someone here would. But this statement does seem problematic in terms of the assertion apologists often make, ie, that the witnesses never denied their testimony.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Young also said, on more than one occasion I think, that people should pray that they never see an angel, because that's the one surefire thing that drove people in the church into apostasy by making them arrogant and unwilling to submit to the prophet. The bit you quoted about doubting they'd ever seen an angel, however, appears to be something else entirely.

[_Jersey Girl]

There were no Gold Plates.

[_beastie]

You know one thing that always struck me odd, and as a potential clue to what really happened, was the bit about sandy-haired angels.

There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an angel of light. A sister in the state of New York had a vision, who said it was told her that if she would go to a certain place in the woods, an angel would appear to her. She went at the appointed time, and saw a glorious personage descending, arrayed in white, with sandy colored hair; he commenced and told her to fear God, and said that her husband was called to do great things, but that he must not go more than one hundred miles from home, or he would not return; whereas God had called him to go to the ends of the earth, and he has since been more than one thousand miles from home, and is yet alive. Many true things were spoken by this personage, and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by, and by his contradicting a former revelation.

Times and Seasons
April 1, 1842
Try the Spirits

Comment about authorship:

1. This unsigned article if not dictated by Joseph Smith then clearly written by one of his close associates, brings together several previous doctrinal threads from the Prophet. The primary theme is the discernment of spirits. Here "spirit" does not necessarily mean a spiritual "agent," but may also refer to a spiritual movement or to spiritual claims or influences. Judging among various claims and spiritual manifestations or personages is not a simple matter as illustrated by various examples in the article. This expands on previous instruction by the Prophet regarding how a righteous spiritual messenger may be distinguished from a wicked one. The book of Abraham text was published just prior to this article and we see mention of a theme related to this with the remarks that "spirits are eternal," etc. See 30Jan42.

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Parallel/1842/1Apr42.html#N_1_

This always struck me as really odd. An angel can't have sandy hair? Could it be that certain individuals had ploy going in which they were pretending to be an angel, and they didn't want someone else - with sandy hair - to get the same idea?

Jersey Girl -

You don't think there could have possibly been fake, constructed plates?

[_Jersey Girl]

Oh sure, beastie, there could have been some object for witnesses to feel. But there were no Gold Plates to translate from and nothing was translated. By the time the witnesses felt the objects or saw them spiritually, the Book of Mormon had already been compiled and planned for. The "translation" process was a show.

Going out on a limb, confidently.

[_beastie]

Oh sure, beastie, there could have been some object for witnesses to feel. But there were no Gold Plates to translate from and nothing was translated. By the time the witnesses felt the objects or saw them spiritually, the Book of Mormon had already been compiled and planned for. The "translation" process was a show.

I think that is definitely true, regardless of WHO the author was.

[_Jersey Girl]

Oh sure, beastie, there could have been some object for witnesses to feel. But there were no Gold Plates to translate from and nothing was translated. By the time the witnesses felt the objects or saw them spiritually, the Book of Mormon had already been compiled and planned for. The "translation" process was a show.

I think that is definitely true, regardless of WHO the author was.

Who the author(s) were.

The limb again...