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I was watching the Colbert show on Comedy Central and they made a video skit in honor of Mitt Romney. Part of it showed Mitt trying to squirm his way out of a comment he made about seeing his father march with Martin Luther King. So I looked it up:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... ing_march/

Romney said his father had told him he had marched with King and that he had been using the word "saw" in a "figurative sense."

"If you look at the literature, if you look at the dictionary, the term 'saw' includes being aware of in the sense I've described," Romney told reporters in Iowa. "It's a figure of speech and very familiar, and it's very common. And I saw my dad march with Martin Luther King. I did not see it with my own eyes, but I saw him in the sense of being aware of his participation in that great effort."

This had me laughing because this is exactly the kind of tripe you would expect to get at MADB.

And just how far would that logic work anyway? Maybe the witnesses who "saw" the gold plates, were only speaking figuratively too.

Good Lord, does anyone here really doubt Romney made this comment as a means to pander to black voters?

Not you David. You worship the guy and can see nothing wrong about his character. After all, you shook his hand, so you know all you need to know. I see no difference between Romney's cheap political tactics and those by other politicians.

dartagnan wrote:

Mitt Romeny wrote:I did not see it with my own eyes, but I saw him in the sense of being aware of his participation in that great effort."

This had me laughing because this is exactly the kind of tripe you would expect to get at MADB.

And just how far would that logic work anyway? Maybe the witnesses who "saw" the gold plates, were only speaking figuratively too.

Ha ha! Yes, it's exactly like that. Too funny.

Dude! It's been a while, man.

Kevin, I didn't really like Romney, but my own beef with him has nothing to do with the "saw" thing about his dad and Martin Luther King.

I'm going to give you an example sentence. Please explain to me what's wrong with my use of the word "saw".

"The 1970s saw the LDS church give up the practice of denying the priesthood to blacks."

How can a decade "see" anything? It's clearly a figure of speech indicating that it happened, not that anyone in particular witnessed something with their ocular orbs.

"Over the last few years I saw my waistline expand inch by inch."

Does this require, in order for it to be true, that I actually witnessed, with my own two eyes, each inch of my increasing girth throughout the years? Or can this sentence be taken to mean simply that I was aware over the last few years that my waistline was expanding.

I think that Romney's remark was meant in this same way, or can be explained this way. I don't think there's a problem with his having not actually witnessed his dad marching with King.

And, anyhow, the existence of the Apostle Delbert Stapley letter to George Romney tells me that Mitt's dad was more than likely on the right side of the whole black issue. He supported their rights, and kicked against the pricks in the Q12 hard enough to get an apostle to write to him to "correct" his attitude. If nothing else, Mitt's dad saw through the racist crap in the LDS church and was more progressive on the black issue in the church than a lot of other members, including members of the Quorum of the Twelve. I see that as being quite a credit to him.

welcome back dude - your thoughts are needed on a frequent basis - now back to the subject.

dartagnan wrote:I was watching the Colbert show on Comedy Central and they made a video skit in honor of Mitt Romney. Part of it showed Mitt trying to squirm his way out of a comment he made about seeing his father march with Martin Luther King. So I looked it up:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... ing_march/

Romney said his father had told him he had marched with King and that he had been using the word "saw" in a "figurative sense."

"If you look at the literature, if you look at the dictionary, the term 'saw' includes being aware of in the sense I've described," Romney told reporters in Iowa. "It's a figure of speech and very familiar, and it's very common. And I saw my dad march with Martin Luther King. I did not see it with my own eyes, but I saw him in the sense of being aware of his participation in that great effort."

This had me laughing because this is exactly the kind of tripe you would expect to get at MADB.

And just how far would that logic work anyway? Maybe the witnesses who "saw" the gold plates, were only speaking figuratively too.

Good Lord, does anyone here really doubt Romney made this comment as a means to pander to black voters?

Not you David. You worship the guy and can see nothing wrong about his character. After all, you shook his hand, so you know all you need to know. I see no difference between Romney's cheap political tactics and those by other politicians.

Yes, I worship Romney, but only in the figurative sense.

I realize that he's not perfect (though he was at Church on Sunday). Heavens, I don't even agree with all of his political views and I certainly realized that as a politician he had to sell himself to the public in order to gain support. I think he made some mistakes along the way, including his switch from being pro-choice (which I agree with) to being anti-choice (which I reject).

Why the change of heart? I know I've been giving you crap about supporting romney in the past but why are you reversing? Not that im complaining.

The Dude,

I was thinking about you the other day.

Some years ago, my wife starting calling me "Dude," which given my lifestyle, eventually morphed into "Duderonomy," which may not seem too romantic to some, but has been my "pet" name for quite a while.

Recently, my daughter had a shocking experience in Sunday school when the teacher asked the students to turn to the book of Deuteronomy.

"I can't believe it!," she said.

"Seriously, that's a book in the Bible!"

"I thought that was just my Dad's name."

Any hope that I had in impressing my Ward via my well-informed, Family-Home Evening trained offspring was completely shot.

Oh I never said it couldn't be used figuratively, I just don't think that was his intent.

I can say I "see the situation differently," which means to perceive or understand. But in the context of Romney's original remark, he is referring to a person in the act of seeing another person physically do something.

Now I cannot think of any parallel example where this is figurative. Saying you see your child grow up is not figurative. It is literal. Saying the 1970's "saw" something isn't a good comparision because the 1970's isn't a person.

Furthermore, this whole thing got worse when it turned out to be unsupported by history.

dartagnan wrote:Oh I never said it couldn't be used figuratively, I just don't think that was his intent.

I can say I "see the situation differently," which means to perceive or understand. But in the context of Romney's original remark, he is referring to a person in the act of seeing another person physically do something.

Now I cannot think of any parallel example where this is figurative. Saying you see your child grow up is not figurative. It is literal. Saying the 1970's "saw" something isn't a good comparision because the 1970's isn't a person.

Furthermore, this whole thing got worse when it turned out to be unsupported by history.

Romney's intent was clear. He was trying to place his father next to MLK in the minds of the listeners. It was disingenuous.

Wow, Seth, I'd never have expected this sort of post from you. Sure, the word can be used and explained away the way you've described, but to suggest that's what was on Romney's mind at the time he made this comment is, well, a stretch, to say the absolute least.