DiscussMormonism.com

There are some that do derive great comfort from their belief in a "plan", an "afterlife" and "meaning" from their belief in a God. I recognize this and have long recognized this. With this understanding I've been hesitant to discuss religious beliefs with those that hold them. Other reasons have also made me hesitant to discuss religion -- cultural norms, tradition, and the like. I'm rethinking this position as I'm not too fond of traditions for mere tradition sake.

I understand that we tell our children that the Easter Bunny is not real at some point. We also, most of us, don't allow our children to believe in fantasy for mere fantasies sake as they grow to adulthood. Yet, when we are dealing with adults, that are not our responsibility, is it appropriate to strip them from their grandeur of beliefs in some fantasy?

I don't want this to delve off into control of the masses (how those that rule compel those under them with religious control), or how it may cause harm to society. I want to keep this discussion strictly upon the human comfort some derive from these said beliefs.

Is it appropriate to strip this from them? Why or why not?

How would you go about stripping these beliefs from them? If you could? Is there ever a time you would be hesitant to do so? At a funeral? At a deathbed? Why or why not?

If you're a theist what emotional (psychological) needs are met by belief in a deity, afterlife, etc...?

Moniker wrote:There are some that do derive great comfort from their belief in a "plan", an "afterlife" and "meaning" from their belief in a God. I recognize this and have long recognized this. With this understanding I've been hesitant to discuss religious beliefs with those that hold them. Other reasons have also made me hesitant to discuss religion -- cultural norms, tradition, and the like. I'm rethinking this position as I'm not too fond of traditions for mere tradition sake.

I understand that we tell our children that the Easter Bunny is not real at some point. We also, most of us, don't allow our children to believe in fantasy for mere fantasies sake as they grow to adulthood. Yet, when we are dealing with adults, that are not our responsibility, is it appropriate to strip them from their grandeur of beliefs in some fantasy?

I don't want this to delve off into control of the masses (how those that rule compel those under them with religious control), or how it may cause harm to society. I want to keep this discussion strictly upon the human comfort some derive from these said beliefs.

Is it appropriate to strip this from them? Why or why not?

How would you go about stripping these beliefs from them? If you could? Is there ever a time you would be hesitant to do so? At a funeral? At a deathbed? Why or why not?

If you're a theist what emotional (psychological) needs are met by belief in a deity, afterlife, etc...?

I think we create the need for meaning by creating contrast. In other words, in our upbringing, we are told (at least in Mormonism) that "this life on Earth is but a spec in our total eternal existence..." So we would be foolish not to do all in our power to behave the way we should to make the rest of our existence better.

I've also heard "I don't know if I could live without the gospel...," implying that without the "plan" it lays out, how and why should we even continue this life?

I had to play with this after I had a very quick transition out (at least intellectually and spiritually) of the LDS church in the mid 90s, and it took a while to work this out. Funny thing, after my metamorphasis, I really do about the same things I did back then, but with very different interpretations of why. I have the same kind of excitement when I watch the Utah Jazz or the Utes win games. I feel very bonded and close to my kids when I spend good times with them. I really empathize with the pain and fear my kids experience (I watched my oldest daughter have surgery last week, and she really struggled, and I thought I was going to need the meds after!).

Point is, I realized we all have the same desires and emotions, even if we call them something else. Today I "do things" because I enjoy them...and I actually find that I enjoy the same things without a real belief in any dogma at all!

I think it can work as a defense mechanism for dealing with the possibility that life has no meaning (a very scary thought in it's self) and it's also provides a warm and fuzzy to know there's someone (a very powerful, all knowing Someone) looking out for you.

Bond...James Bond wrote:I think it can work as a defense mechanism for dealing with the possibility that life has no meaning (a very scary thought in it's self) and it's also provides a warm and fuzzy to know there's someone (a very powerful, all knowing Someone) looking out for you.

Yes, they talk of the "spiritual center" in the brain that gets all euphoric and enlightened when there is a spiritual experience. I'm sure those that had "strong faith" in the afterlife were naturally selected to live longer and procreate more.

BishopRic wrote:
I think we create the need for meaning by creating contrast. In other words, in our upbringing, we are told (at least in Mormonism) that "this life on Earth is but a spec in our total eternal existence..." So we would be foolish not to do all in our power to behave the way we should to make the rest of our existence better.

I've also heard "I don't know if I could live without the gospel...," implying that without the "plan" it lays out, how and why should we even continue this life?

Right, I've heard that too. On and off-line. I just don't know if I'm willing to challenge their notions. If someone finds comfort (in whatever it is and it doesn't hurt others) is it appropriate to try to rid this from them? Or maybe appropriate isn't the right word. Is it necessary? Is it cruel? Is it just forcing them to "grow up" -- as I've seen it stated by other atheists?

I had to play with this after I had a very quick transition out (at least intellectually and spiritually) of the LDS church in the mid 90s, and it took a while to work this out. Funny thing, after my metamorphasis, I really do about the same things I did back then, but with very different interpretations of why. I have the same kind of excitement when I watch the Utah Jazz or the Utes win games. I feel very bonded and close to my kids when I spend good times with them. I really empathize with the pain and fear my kids experience (I watched my oldest daughter have surgery last week, and she really struggled, and I thought I was going to need the meds after!).

I hope your daughter is okay now! And you too. :)

You're absolutely correct -- we all find comfort in different things. Yet, does that comfort have to come from something not supernatural? If it is supernatural and it brings comfort must it be stripped from them? I'm thinking of arguments I've heard that this belief is merely an emotional (or psychological) crutch -- yet, why in and of itself is this a bad thing?

Point is, I realized we all have the same desires and emotions, even if we call them something else. Today I "do things" because I enjoy them...and I actually find that I enjoy the same things without a real belief in any dogma at all!

Well, I've never made the transition from dogma to without, so I can't relate. Yet, I have plenty of beliefs that don't rely on reason. I do find comfort in them and sort of like them. I mean, I don't believe in leprechauns, ghosts, or oogie boogie men, yet, I just sort of believe things for no other reason than I like to! If I want to believe something because it makes it easier for me to cope then I do it -- well, at least I try to. :)

From what I can tell, some people have a need or desire to connect with their spiritual side and others do not have a spiritual side.

BishopRic wrote:

Bond...James Bond wrote:I think it can work as a defense mechanism for dealing with the possibility that life has no meaning (a very scary thought in it's self) and it's also provides a warm and fuzzy to know there's someone (a very powerful, all knowing Someone) looking out for you.

Yes, they talk of the "spiritual center" in the brain that gets all euphoric and enlightened when there is a spiritual experience. I'm sure those that had "strong faith" in the afterlife were naturally selected to live longer and procreate more.

Oooo, I like warm fuzzies!! I like euphoria! I actually liked the idea that these spiritual experiences I had were from God when I was a kid -- when I came to the conclusion they weren't from God I was rather disappointed for some reason! Although it was nice to know I wasn't insane or crazy -- that there was a science (neurotheology) behind this human condition.

So, if someone does like these warm fuzzies and is fairly happy with their thought that they're from God should this be stripped from them?

moksha wrote:From what I can tell, some people have a need or desire to connect with their spiritual side and others do not have a spiritual side.

Well, there are atheists that are spiritual. There are theists that aren't. What is your definition of spiritual?

Moniker wrote:Well, there are atheists that are spiritual. There are theists that aren't. What is your definition of spiritual?

Warm fuzzies when pondering the Divine.


Not this Divine!

moksha wrote:

Moniker wrote:Well, there are atheists that are spiritual. There are theists that aren't. What is your definition of spiritual?

Warm fuzzies when pondering the Divine.


Not this Divine!

hahaaaa!!

Soooo glad I wasn't drinking a soda! :D

I actually like Divine -- a lot! Yet, I don't get warm fuzzies from Divine... not yet, anyway!