Spencer Lake Horse Skull

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Bond...James Bond
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am

Post by _Bond...James Bond »

Runtu wrote:Nevertheless, you two started it. Neener neener.


Nuhuh...livy posted the videos on both boards, and thus he planted the seeds of this Board War. Do you think we should just start calling this the Old Firm [like the long standing rivalry between Rangers and Celtic] or 100 Years War or some other type of long standing conflict marker...I feel bad thinking that every board war has to be declared.

Can't we just assume that we're in a board war/conflict/struggle unless a armistice has been agreed to (sort of like how a state of nature exists as long as the chance of violence exists....damnit. Hobbes again)?
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_Runtu
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Bond...James Bond wrote:
Runtu wrote:Nevertheless, you two started it. Neener neener.


Nuhuh...livy posted the videos on both boards, and thus he planted the seeds of this Board War. Do you think we should just start calling this the Old Firm [like the long standing rivalry between Rangers and Celtic] or 100 Years War or some other type of long standing conflict marker...I feel bad thinking that every board war has to be declared.

Can't we just assume that we're in a board war/conflict/struggle unless a armistice has been agreed to (sort of like how a state of nature exists as long as the chance of violence exists....damnit. Hobbes again)?


Are we sure livy isn't a Bond sockpuppet? ;)
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Boaz & Lidia
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:31 am

Post by _Boaz & Lidia »

God, what a great bit of research, which confirms the only sure thing is some mo'pologists are covered in steamy, warm, ewwy-gooie, sticky, wretchedly stinking horse crap!

Not only egg on their faces but fresh fecal matter from a horse's anus! With the last insulting splat of crap being pushed out by a big horse fart!


Next clip to be shown, A horse, two mo'pologists and a cup!
_Boaz & Lidia
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:31 am

Post by _Boaz & Lidia »

Nice work. Did you see Zak's unemployed lameass empty reply? What a loser.
_Dr. Shades
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Post by _Dr. Shades »

CaliforniaKid wrote:I need to log off. When I start feeling seriously tempted to email a mod and tell him what I really think of him, it's time to take a break.


Don't be shy. Whenever you want to e-mail me to tell me how great I am, please feel free.

Boaz & Lidia, what was Zakuska's reply?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Boaz & Lidia
_Emeritus
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:31 am

Post by _Boaz & Lidia »

Dr. Shades wrote:
CaliforniaKid wrote:I need to log off. When I start feeling seriously tempted to email a mod and tell him what I really think of him, it's time to take a break.


Don't be shy. Whenever you want to e-mail me to tell me how great I am, please feel free.

Boaz & Lidia, what was Zakuska's reply?
NOTHING. Just two lameass ROFL emoticons pointing to a stupid toyota superbowl commercial on youtube.
_beastie
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Post by _beastie »

The Bible Vs Book of Mormon was released in October 2005. The FAIR video was a rebuttal to that one. So obviously it was produced AFTER 2005.

http://www.lhvm.org/Bible.htm

I thought maybe after I slept on it I would recover from my slight shock last night - shock at either the utter, hopeless incompetence of apologists like DCP, or the deliberate deception of the same. But I'm still shocked. I thought I was beyond shocked after my years of debating apologists, after exposing Sorenson's flawed metallurgy references... but this is a new low.
Believers have excitedly and hopefully looked forward to the release of this carbon dating for YEARS - and I'm betting that if Chris hadn't found this essay, the real information would NEVER have been shared. Obviously FARMS wasn't going to share it - look at Chris' ignored emails. Obviously the apologists - including DCP - were quite content to remain silent and allow believers to exercise a vain hope. Why did they think they could get away with it? Because they've gotten away with it so many times in the past. Using the example of Sorenson's faulty footnotes that I exposed - how many DECADES had those sources been parroted by apologists who could have easily checked the source themselves??? They get away with this stuff because they are not subject to any strict academic peer review, and their target audience wants to believe what they're saying so badly they are not inclined AT ALL to check these assertions. And anyone who DOES check their assertions is a dirty anti-mormon. The mods have made that clear in their reaction to these threads. What idiots. What idiots.

I used to wonder whether the cause of these events was simple incompetence or willing deception. The incompetence that this particular event would require was so stunning that it could only have been a CHOICE to remain ignorant due to the suspicion that the evidence wouldn't pan out. Perhaps this is the same reason apologists don't bother to check one another's references (for controversial assertions). They don't want to KNOW it's bogus. What's that phrase for choosing to remain ignorant so you won't be legally liable for something? Can't remember, but that describes what's going on here, except it's a moral liability, not legal. This has pushed me over the edge in regards to choosing between incompetence or willing deception - the incompetence is so extreme it is a FORM of willing deception.

THIS is why I stay involved in responding to Book of Mormon apologetics. These apologists are willing deceiving people who are looking for information. If someone took the time to LOOK for this information, at least some part of them wants to KNOW the truth. Yes, they're eager and easy to be convinced - but if at least SOME small part of their minds wanted to know the TRUTH and not just reassurances, I don't think they would go out of their way to look in the first place. And they are being misled, time after time. I don't care if people are Mormons or not, but I DO care when people are deliberately misled, time after time, by the same group of people.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

beastie wrote: What's that phrase for choosing to remain ignorant so you won't be legally liable for something? Can't remember, but that describes what's going on here, except it's a moral liability, not legal. This has pushed me over the edge in regards to choosing between incompetence or willing deception - the incompetence is so extreme it is a FORM of willing deception.


I think that the word you are looking for is 'deniability' .

Do you recall the passage in Dickens' 'Great Expectations', where Pip goes to see the lawyer Mr Jaggers, who knows very well that a criminal transported to Australia has illegally returned to London, but does not want Pip to say that in front of him:

Mr Jaggers was at his desk, but, seeing me enter, got up immediately and stood before his fire.

`Now, Pip,' said he, `be careful.'

`I will, sir,' I returned. For, coming along I had thought well of what I was going to say.

`Don't commit yourself,' said Mr Jaggers, `and don't commit any one. You understand -- any one. Don't tell me anything: I don't want to know anything; I am not curious.'

Of course I saw that he knew the man was come.


See http://www.literature.org/authors/dicke ... er-40.html

We could call this way of fending off unwelcome knowledge a 'Jaggerism' if we wanted to be literary. But it really deserves no better name than plain old bad faith.


I don't care if people are Mormons or not, but I DO care when people are deliberately misled, time after time, by the same group of people.


I think that goes for a lot of people on this board. It's not so much intolerance of a person's religious belief in itself, which would be a bad thing, but an intolerance for nonsense masquerading as scholarship, pressed into the service of religious belief.

Incidentally, is there now ANY alleged evidence for horses in the Americas in Book of Mormon times that has not been definitively holed below the waterline? I wonder what DCP would say?
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Thanks for the analogy, Chap. You just sorted my morning train reading...
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_truth dancer
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Post by _truth dancer »

I would like to say I am surprised but I am not... not at all.

I have come to learn that this is the common way some apologists "work."

As much as I would like to believe that these rather dishonest tactics are done without intent, I have a very difficult time believing these scholars are this incompetent, naïve, or uninformed.

Either way, it confirms the reality that the apologetic work of these men cannot be trusted.


~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
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