DiscussMormonism.com

why me wrote:

harmony wrote:
Angel/sword/death. What part of that story don't you understand, Will? The part about Joseph using God as the hammer to getting women to marry him?

And yet we have this:

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Exodus-5-3/

And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.

The sword fits right into the picture of just who god is. How to explain it?

Can you find an instance in the Bible where god forced two people to have sex on threat of death? You can find a lot of rubbish, but I doubt you'll find that.

Buffalo wrote:
There are many FLDS victims of Warren Jeffs' sexual predation who also warmly regard Jeffs as the Lord's prophet. But why is Will so shy about speaking up about Joseph's sexual prowess over at MAD? While all the apologists are busy trying to paint Joseph as a celibate forger of legacy sealings, it's complete silence from Schryver.

Nothing like a loaded comparison. It is a shame that when all is lost out comes Jim Jones, David Koresh and Warren Jeffs. I am not sure about Joseph's sexual prowess. None of the women involved called him lustful or a hunk. Only good words about him. And they were certainly sad to see him dead as they walked to bury him. Why should I judge him harshly if they don't?

Buffalo wrote:
Can you find an instance in the Bible where god forced two people to have sex on threat of death? You can find a lot of rubbish, but I doubt you'll find that.

It seems that Joseph was threatened with death if he did not begin plural marriage and yes, that would fit in with the Bible, especially the god of the old testament.

Harmony keeps on bringing up the sword as if this would be alien to god. And yet, it fits right in with his character, if we go by the old testament.

http://professorwillis.blogspot.com/200 ... amine.html

Interesting take on god.

Buffalo wrote:
I'm sure you could find some tender moments in the life of Warren Jeffs as well.

I edited your last sentence for you, to improve accuracy.

Except that some women came forward and did not say pleasant things about him. Thus, the involvement of law enforcement. But again, another loaded comparison.

Runtu wrote:
Are you channeling Juliann, Will? This is perhaps the dumbest defense of polygamy I've ever heard: the women didn't complain, and our disapproval of the practice means we're anti-feminists who want to silence these women who deserve to heard, dammit! Hell, the Jonestown folks didn't complain while they were lining up to drink the Kool-Aid, did they? What a stupid, stupid argument, Will.

Here we go again with a jim jones comparison. Here is the point of Juliann: these women around Joseph Smith were not stupid or dupes. They were intelligent and wise and also some were very stubborn. But in the end, they would probably kick your butt by implying that they were abused or mislead or dumb.

why me wrote:

Buffalo wrote:
There are many FLDS victims of Warren Jeffs' sexual predation who also warmly regard Jeffs as the Lord's prophet. But why is Will so shy about speaking up about Joseph's sexual prowess over at MAD? While all the apologists are busy trying to paint Joseph as a celibate forger of legacy sealings, it's complete silence from Schryver.

Nothing like a loaded comparison. It is a shame that when all is lost out comes Jim Jones, David Koresh and Warren Jeffs. I am not sure about Joseph's sexual prowess. None of the women involved called him lustful or a hunk. Only good words about him. And they were certainly sad to see him dead as they walked to bury him. Why should I judge him harshly if they don't?

Similarly, why should we judge Jim Jones, David Koresh and Warren Jeffs harshly if their victims don't?

why me wrote:

Buffalo wrote:
I'm sure you could find some tender moments in the life of Warren Jeffs as well.

I edited your last sentence for you, to improve accuracy.

Except that some women came forward and did not say pleasant things about him. Thus, the involvement of law enforcement. But again, another loaded comparison.

Yes, just like Sarah Pratt came forward against Joseph. So it's a great comparison.

why me wrote:
Especially when one reads his letters to emma. Even from prison he was demonstrating his concern and love. Not exactly a letter that one would write to someone that must have been in on the fraud, if it were a fraud. Joseph Smith was not perfect. He often admited so and certainly the saints were constantly judging his imperfections and many left the church because of them. But Joseph Smith soldiered on and died for his faith.

I see this is where you have run off to. Are you saying that a fraudster has no love for others?

I will also repeat Brade's question you have run away from.

Brade

Is the following statement true or false?

Whyme

If the Mormon church were a fraud, then it wouldn't still exists.

why me wrote:
Here we go again with a jim jones comparison. Here is the point of Juliann: these women around Joseph Smith were not stupid or dupes. They were intelligent and wise and also some were very stubborn. But in the end, they would probably kick your butt by implying that they were abused or mislead or dumb.

Why do you always make assertions you have no idea about?

why me wrote:
Here we go again with a jim jones comparison. Here is the point of Juliann: these women around Joseph Smith were not stupid or dupes. They were intelligent and wise and also some were very stubborn. But in the end, they would probably kick your butt by implying that they were abused or mislead or dumb.

And how can you be sure of this?

I agree that many of the women who submitted to Joseph's advances were not stupid, but most of them also firmly believed that he was THE Prophet of God. He used this power and influence over them. Of this I have no doubt. But that doesn't mean they weren't good women. Quite the contrary as they thought they were being obedient to God's wishes and commands.

I have to believe that if President Monson approached different women in the church with the same proposal (telling them he was commanded by God, that it was to be kept secret because others weren't ready to know about it or accept it, but that it was time to introduce this great principle again, etc.), they would be flattered and compelled to go along with him.

I honestly shudder to think of this, but I sadly believe this to be the case.